[KingArthur]

Thing is, we all benefit from modern countries with a well-developed infrastructure, defence, essential services etc and all these things cost a lot of money and taxation is the only option, which is fair enough. Yes, differing political persuations may argue about the extent of expenditure on such things but there will still be a price to pay, which is also fair enough.

But why not just have a single tax instead of a myriad of taxes on this and taxes on that, with all the social engineering that often accompanies so many different taxes? Why not simply fund the cost of running the country from income tax? Sure, it's likely to be fairly high but we already pay a high percentage of tax only it is hidden away and not always easy to immediately grasp the full extent of overall taxation. Eg (in the UK), basic income tax is 20%, so that's Monday we work for the taxman. If you earn more than around £50k then you pay an extra 20% income tax, so that's Tuesday working for the taxman. Then there is 13-ish% national insurance, so that Wednesday morning and into the early afternoon working for the taxman and all of income you never see because it's deducted at source (for the vast majority).

From Wednesday early afternoon you at least know how much income you have made that week, but the taxations doesn't stop there because not only do you pay tax on what you earn but you pay tax on what you spend. Top of the list must be 'value added tax' (often called 'sales tax'), which is currently 20% on almost everything you buy . . . except that it's effectively MORE than 20% because it is paid out of your already-taxed income! So, that takes you to about Thursday midday working for the taxman. Then, roughly speaking, there's additional taxes on car fuel, insurance policies, air passenger duty, alcohol and tobacco taxes, etc, so let's say that's the remainder of Thursday working for the taxman. And all that is without considering things like capital gains taxes, inheritance taxes etc.

All of which leaves Friday when you're actually working for yourself, ie something around 80% of everything you earn ending up in the taxman's coffers. In fact, if you think about it, even that remaining money you spend ends up with the taxman because it becomes income for the person or company you paid and they then have to pay their own tax on it!

What's that old saying about death and taxes?

 

[BigDipper]

Going to happen in Belgium too ... If they ever get around to coming up with a way to calculate an amount that makes sense. (not holding my breath about the making sense part)

And on who/where that tax will be spent! Gotta love Belgium's conveniently awkward red-tape machine.

 

[BigDipper]

UK Petrol duty is about 53p/litre plus 20% vat on top! Current price is around £1.40/litre (I think . . . I no longer pay close attention ) So vat is about 23p + 53p duty = 76p = about 54% total tax.

Whatever your politics, this is a huge source of revenue for the UK taxman and will have to be recovered from somewhere. Given the complications of applying it to EV fuel - ie electricity - my bet is on some form road pricing or mileage tax, because this would be relatively easy to implement and could be 'sold' as being fair for all car users regardless of their fuel.

Personally, I think taxing personal mobility is a travesty, but that's a whole other conversation!

Having just switched from a 3 litre Diesel I can confirm indeed, £1.40 a litre...
Whats REALLY annoying though, is that the public charging fees are roughly equivalent to the price of fuel... but there ISN'T fuel duty included yet! So these bloody charging networks are making a fortune at the minute. And I would like to bet if they added "charging duty" into the equation, it would be ON TOP of the current pricing..

Roll on Nuclear Fusion and free energy for all..

 

[poundsnpence]

Having just switched from a 3 litre Diesel I can confirm indeed, £1.40 a litre...
Whats REALLY annoying though, is that the public charging fees are roughly equivalent to the price of fuel... but there ISN'T fuel duty included yet! So these bloody charging networks are making a fortune at the minute. And I would like to bet if they added "charging duty" into the equation, it would be ON TOP of the current pricing..

Roll on Nuclear Fusion and free energy for all..

That's not quite the whole picture: energy price caps only apply on consumer supply, businesses have to negotiate their own rates with suppliers, and therefore are often a lot higher than consumers pay...

I'm not saying they won't be making decent money, but nothing like what the energy companies themselves are creaming off...

 

[golfins]

Yeah. This is going to be annoying for our family living in Delaware. Between my wife and myself, we drive a Polestar 3, a hybrid Tundra, and a PHEV Mazda. All will have an annual fee, regardless of the fact my hybrid Tundra still pays just as much gas taxes as any other Tundra as the MPG is still only ~18. Seems like a disingenuous interpretation of a solution to me.

The info I got indicates hybrids will also be charged a (somewhat less) extra fee!

 

[jameslsolley]

So a few days ago I got a postcard from the Delaware DMV informing me of a new AFV (Alternative Fuel Vehicle) tax. This will be a yearly tax of $110 (apparently in addition to usual yearly registration fees) on all EVs (hybrids and plug in hybrids somewhat less) to replace the lost monies for road maintenance from not using gasoline. I fully expect that with upcoming loss of the Federal tax credit and the new AFV tax Delaware will be seeing fewer EVs in the future in spite of the State's move to substantially increase charging stations.



MY23 Magnesium LRSM, PP

It's a disincentive by bought-and-paid-for politicians beholden to the fossil fuel industry. It's $200 in Texas.

 

[SashaSolitaire]

It's a disincentive by bought-and-paid-for politicians beholden to the fossil fuel industry. It's $200 in Texas.

Really? So this has nothing to do with the revenue states are losing on gasoline not purchased, but some conspiracy by the fossil fuel industry?

 

[jameslsolley]

Really? So this has nothing to do with the revenue states are losing on gasoline not purchased, but some conspiracy by the fossil fuel industry?

Follow the money. Fossil fuels need to be phased out to save the planet. This is the pi

Really? So this has nothing to do with the revenue states are losing on gasoline not purchased, but some conspiracy by the fossil fuel industry?

Really? So this has nothing to do with the revenue states are losing on gasoline not purchased, but some conspiracy by the fossil fuel industry?

The primary goal of creating alternative fuel vehicles is to reduce the burning of fossil fuels. That is a primary reason most of us purchase them. If you, as a politician, share those goals, you legislate incentives to achieve them. If you don't, and your campaign donationd come from the fossil fuel industry, you legislate against that objective.
Highway construction and maintenance has traditionally been financed by taxes on fossil fuels. You can either increase the tax on fossil fuels to more accurately reflect their damage to the planet and signal a goal to move to alternative fuels or you can tax the alternative fuel vehicles to accomplish the opposite.
This is not rocket science. It's politics.

 

[SashaSolitaire]

Follow the money. Fossil fuels need to be phased out to save the planet. This is the pi


The primary goal of creating alternative fuel vehicles is to reduce the burning of fossil fuels. That is a primary reason most of us purchase them. If you, as a politician, share those goals, you legislate incentives to achieve them. If you don't, and your campaign donationd come from the fossil fuel industry, you legislate against that objective.
Highway construction and maintenance has traditionally been financed by taxes on fossil fuels. You can either increase the tax on fossil fuels to more accurately reflect their damage to the planet and signal a goal to move to alternative fuels or you can tax the alternative fuel vehicles to accomplish the opposite.
This is not rocket science. It's politics.

And you need money to maintain infrastructure. Taking your position to the extreme, let's say that the taxes on fossil fuel are raised so high that everyone switches over to EVs. How will the money to maintain the road infrastructure be raised? Or are you saying that no one should be driving? Delaware is NOT legislating against EVs. They are trying to bridge a gap in the budget. This is not politics, just basic bookkeeping.

 

[jameslsolley]

And you need money to maintain infrastructure. Taking your position to the extreme, let's say that the taxes on fossil fuel are raised so high that everyone switches over to EVs. How will the money to maintain the road infrastructure be raised? Or are you saying that no one should be driving? Delaware is NOT legislating against EVs. They are trying to bridge a gap in the budget. This is not politics, just basic bookkeeping.

You can't keep relying on fossil fuel taxes to fund infrastructure if you're trying to phase out fossil fuels. This is simple math and logic. The question is: are you trying to phase out fossil fuels? Humanity must commit or become extinct. Sure. Tax EVs for road construction and maintenance. As the ratio of EVs to ICE becomes greater, budget accordingly. But you have to incentivise that. So you make it prohibitively expensive to drive ICE while making it financially attractive to drive EVs. There's your basic bookkeeping. But if you don't think politics is involved in shaping consumer habits, you're very naive. We incentivise having children by giving tax breaks to parents. If we wanted to depopulate the planet and reduce overpopulation we'd be making it financially prohibitive. But we're not smart enough to overcome our animal urges. Profits Uber alles.

 

[Amphicar770]

For Pennsylvania it is $200 in 2025, $250 in 2026, Tied to Consumer Price Index (CPI) increase thereafter.

Plug-in hybrid EV owners will pay a flat annual fee equal to 25% of the EV fee.

While I fully support EV owners contributing their fair share to maintaining roads, this is a punitive GOP tax. I drive less than 10k per year, I will now be paying the equivalent of an ICE vehicle driving 25k mikes a year. Likewise, the ICE fuel tax does not automatically increase each year.

PA records mileage every year at both registration and stste inspection, there is no reason this tax could not be based on actual miles driven.

 

[golfins]

And you need money to maintain infrastructure. Taking your position to the extreme, let's say that the taxes on fossil fuel are raised so high that everyone switches over to EVs. How will the money to maintain the road infrastructure be raised? Or are you saying that no one should be driving? Delaware is NOT legislating against EVs. They are trying to bridge a gap in the budget. This is not politics, just basic bookkeeping.

It just seems that the "basic bookkeeping" is tilted. I as others have indicated, don't mind paying into funds to maintain highways but that the cost should be equivalent (If I have a an AFV and only drive 10000 miles per year I should not pay someone who drives 50000 miles per year and addityionally there should be some cost adjustment for not dumping CO2 etc. into the atmosphere).

 

[chaztizer]

The Delaware version gets better and better. I purchased my PS3 out of state on 9/2/25. I hoped they would register it by 10/1 so I could register it without the AFV fee, but they are dragging their heels at the DMV and “aim to process it within 90 days.” Crap timing, but I guess I get the extra $150/year. So it goes.

 

[Amphicar770]

And you need money to maintain infrastructure. Taking your position to the extreme, let's say that the taxes on fossil fuel are raised so high that everyone switches over to EVs. How will the money to maintain the road infrastructure be raised? Or are you saying that no one should be driving? Delaware is NOT legislating against EVs. They are trying to bridge a gap in the budget. This is not politics, just basic bookkeeping.

No one has said that, other than perhaps yourself.

The point most folks are making is that it shoukd not be use based for ICE and fixed price with automatic increases for EVs.

And no, you can't seperate it from politics. Here in PA, the same GOP legislature who implemented this tax claims that climate change is a fraud and going green is a hoax.

 

[Ovation]

Quebec is going to implement something similar soon. But I drive 45-50,000km/yr and gas taxes are VERY high here—vs my X-Terra, I’m saving around 11,000$/yr in fuel costs for the same distance. It would have to be a seriously high tax to make a difference to me. Even if I drove 45% as far (the average around here), the fee would need to be four figures to be a problem.