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Discussion Starter #101 (Edited)
Now I can test this on my own car I’ve got some slightly more positive news.

Charging at a 7 kW public charger with the supplied cable is charging at about 19 amps (an indicated 11 mph). Using a third-party 32 amp cable improves this to around 30 A (18 mph). This equates to approximately 4 kW and 6 kW respectively.

Charging at a 3 kW public charger using the supplied 16A cable is only slightly slower – 15 A and 8 to 9 miles an hour of added range.

You’d need to take a view on whether you would want to invest in a 32 amp cable and carry it round – personally I don’t think I’ll bother.

At home, I have two 7 kW Rolec chargers – the car doesn’t like one and won’t take charge from it (the one I tried on Friday – it works with other cars), but the other charger works just fine with the Polestar, taking about 31 amps (18 mph).

I’ve had installed a 22 kW three-phase charger at work so I’ll find out how that works this week – presumably this will give 11 kW to the Polestar.

Much quicker are the rapid charges, which will be what I’ll be using more of on trips in future!
 

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The Rolec's need a fireware update ... speak to the them for it. Others have mentioned this and that was the solution.
 

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Discussion Starter #103
The Rolec's need a fireware update ... speak to the them for it. Others have mentioned this and that was the solution.
It could be that, although it’s the newer charger which isn’t cooperating – which was only installed earlier this year. I’ll take a look though.
 

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Any suggestions for a book or website to help me better understand amperage, voltage in the context of EV charging? I am new to EV. Thanks
 

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To be honest I'm not sure what there is to know and how technical you want to get.

The voltage is one of two things: single phase is the rms of the input (basically if you take the area of the sine wave input of the supply and draw the same area as a rectangle instead it is the height of the rectangle). A 3 phase connection is higher voltage as it is the rms difference between the 3 phases, each of which are 120 degrees out from each other. In the UK/Europe a single phase is 230 V and 3 phase is 400 V.

The current is simply governed by the resistance of what you are plugging into. So it will be controlled by either the charging box, cable connecting the box to the car or the car itself. In reality the box and car use electronics to govern the current - that gets a little more complicated.

The other thing at play is the input frequency but the car sorts that out so it doesn't matter.

There is plenty of stuff on Google for more info such as the current profile of charger. I don't know what polestar does, e.g. does it drop the current at 50/80% charge to manage the temperature of the battery.

I find the whole lot fascinating so if you fmdo find a good book I'd be interested to read it too.
 

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It seems there are three 230V/16A onboard chargers in parallel which allow for 11kW charging on a 3P/230V/16A supply.

When connected to a 1P source, the three chargers are probably connected in parallel and would allow for 11kW charging if the source can supply 230/[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter #107
That’s pretty much how it seems - I’m getting 10.8 kW charging from a 22 kW 3 phase charger.
 

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To be honest I'm not sure what there is to know and how technical you want to get.

The voltage is one of two things: single phase is the rms of the input (basically if you take the area of the sine wave input of the supply and draw the same area as a rectangle instead it is the height of the rectangle). A 3 phase connection is higher voltage as it is the rms difference between the 3 phases, each of which are 120 degrees out from each other. In the UK/Europe a single phase is 230 V and 3 phase is 400 V.

The current is simply governed by the resistance of what you are plugging into. So it will be controlled by either the charging box, cable connecting the box to the car or the car itself. In reality the box and car use electronics to govern the current - that gets a little more complicated.

The other thing at play is the input frequency but the car sorts that out so it doesn't matter.

There is plenty of stuff on Google for more info such as the current profile of charger. I don't know what polestar does, e.g. does it drop the current at 50/80% charge to manage the temperature of the battery.

I find the whole lot fascinating so if you fmdo find a good book I'd be interested to read it too.
Many thanks for your response. It has helped me understand the discussion on amperage settings
 

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I have read this thread from start to here....Wow, this is a complicated subject.



Could someone, please clarify if I have absorbed and understood the information correctly?

Polestar supply a 16 amp type 2 to type 2 cable in addition to the 3 pin granny charger?

If I have a 7kW wall charger fitted that has a tethered cable, it WILL charge at 7kW?

If the supplied 16 amp type 2 to type 2 cable is plugged into a 7kW wall charger it will only charge at 3kW?
yet at the same charger if I use a 32 amp cable it WILL charge at 7kW? if this is correct then how does the charger/car recognise which cable is being used, is there some sort of data handshake from the cable?
 

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Short answer: The Typ 2 (EN 62196) specification defines resistors in the plugs to code the max. amps for the cable and a signal being send from the charger to the car about the max. amps being available from the charger.

Long answer available here, unfortunately in German, though.
 

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I have read this thread from start to here....Wow, this is a complicated subject.



Could someone, please clarify if I have absorbed and understood the information correctly?

Polestar supply a 16 amp type 2 to type 2 cable in addition to the 3 pin granny charger?

If I have a 7kW wall charger fitted that has a tethered cable, it WILL charge at 7kW?

If the supplied 16 amp type 2 to type 2 cable is plugged into a 7kW wall charger it will only charge at 3kW?
yet at the same charger if I use a 32 amp cable it WILL charge at 7kW? if this is correct then how does the charger/car recognise which cable is being used, is there some sort of data handshake from the cable?
The short answer is yes, you understood it at a high level, but note there is three phase and 1 phase power. Polestar's 16amp cable can do 16 amps over three phases to charge at 11kw, but almost nobody in the UK has that at home. You can use your 16amp cable at 11 and 22kw untethered chargers to get 11kw (max car can do AC charging)

To be able to charge as fast as the car can handle in all situations, you want a 32amp three phase cable, but they are thicker and heavier.
 

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Short answer: The Typ 2 (EN 62196) specification defines resistors in the plugs to code the max. amps for the cable and a signal being send from the charger to the car about the max. amps being available from the charger.

Long answer available here, unfortunately in German, though.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I'll skip the German 🥴

You can use your 16amp cable at 11 and 22kw untethered chargers to get 11kw (max car can do AC charging)
Ok thanks for the clarification, I'm clear on the home setup now, so essentially the 16a cable is of no use for home charging it needs a tethered cable to get the 7kW..... so let's see if I have grasped the rest correctly.....

So, chargers shown on, say, zapmap that are identified as 11 & 22kW can only be 3phase then? If so can the 16 amp cable still be used on the 3phase supply to deliver 3kW?

What about non-home public 7kW chargers such as at Tesco & Aldi does the same apply? ie. If connected using the supplied 16 amp cable it will only charge at 3kW but WILL charge at 7 kW with a 32amp cable?
 

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The 16amp Polestar cable does 3 phase, so zap map 11 and 22 you will get 11kw.

At home and Tesco/Aldi you would get 3.2kw as you're getting 16amps over a single phase.

You can get a 32amp single phase cable, to ensure 7kw at single phase chargers, but then you would need to carry the Polestar cable too and remember which one to use where. If you buy the 3 phase 32amp cable, you can sell (or store if leasing) the Polestar cable and just use the bought one everywhere knowing it will get fastest speed.

Also, none of that matters for DC fast chargers, as they all are tethered.
 

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R-Dash: I posted a video in Home Charging thread that actually has some detail on the handshake business. Volts and amps may be somewhat different in UK and US but it’s probably worth a scan.
 

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Polestar supply a 16 amp type 2 to type 2 cable in addition to the 3 pin granny charger?
13A UK Plug 3-Pin to Type 2 (Red Dot Below)
16A 3 Phase Type 2 to Type 2 (Green Dot's Below)

If I have a 7kW wall charger fitted that has a tethered cable, it WILL charge at 7kW?
Yes

If the supplied 16 amp type 2 to type 2 cable is plugged into a 7kW wall charger it will only charge at 3kW?
Yes, because it's only use 1 Phase at 16A and not 32A.

Yet at the same charger if I use a 32 amp cable it WILL charge at 7kW?
Yes.

if this is correct then how does the charger/car recognise which cable is being used, is there some sort of data handshake from the cable?
In the cable there are two control wires. I suspect some form of a resistor is used on them so the charger knows what's been plugged in.

1076


The UK mostly uses 7kW

So if using an untethered charger a lot you'll only get 3.7kW from it using the supplied 16A Type 2 Cable.

If you are going to use untethered 7kW charger a lot in the UK you'll need to buy EITHER a :-
  • Single Phase 32A Cable (But then need to take the supplied 3 Phase 16A with you if you plan to go to the EU, as they use more the 11kW chargers)
  • 3 Phase 32A Cable (You don't need the supplied 16A, however this cable costs a little more, is heavier and thicker so more cumbersome if only using in the UK)
 

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Discussion Starter #117
I have read this thread from start to here....Wow, this is a complicated subject.



Could someone, please clarify if I have absorbed and understood the information correctly?

Polestar supply a 16 amp type 2 to type 2 cable in addition to the 3 pin granny charger?

If I have a 7kW wall charger fitted that has a tethered cable, it WILL charge at 7kW?

If the supplied 16 amp type 2 to type 2 cable is plugged into a 7kW wall charger it will only charge at 3kW?
yet at the same charger if I use a 32 amp cable it WILL charge at 7kW? if this is correct then how does the charger/car recognise which cable is being used, is there some sort of data handshake from the cable?
You’ve got it!

The supplied 16A cable will do 3 phase charging at 11kW as described above, which would be really useful if there were more than a handful in UK.

TBH as long as you can charge at 7kW at home overnight you should be fine. When touring it’s the rapid 50 or 150 kW chargers that are most useful.
 

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The supplied 16A cable will do 3 phase charging at 11kW as described above, which would be really useful if there were more than a handful in UK.
To be fair, my local council is installing a number of 22kW chargers in local car parks, so that would allow me to charge at 11kW if needed. It is the 7kW supermarket posts that are going to be the issue.
 

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I'm pretty au-fait with the charging cable conundrum now thanks to the explanations given by the electrical gurus on here.

Thanks, guys for your patience and understandable explanations.

My further question is..... what is the purpose of the "charging rate" adjustment on the display? if the car determines the charging rate then should it just not be left on max all the time?
 

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That is a good question and jury is out for me on this. I can't see any decent current vs battery life information anywhere. Im setting mine to the lowest current to be ready when I need it in the morning. Way I see it is it will do no harm to lower it but may help to keep the battery temperature down.

On a more important level it may help manage your incoming supply if you are near the max of your incoming supply (especially if plugging into a standard socket or if your wall box doesn't do that for you). Some incoming supplies are capped at 60 amp or looped so it's shared with a neighbour so could blow the incoming fuse (before your circuit breaker)
 
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