But…….mericaSilly to have two or 3 charging connectors that basically do the same thing, hence why all of Europe is on CCS even Tesla. Easier to change on brand to CCS than to change all brands to Tesla.
The NACS standard allows for up to 1MW charging at 1kV.Does the Tesla port/standard allow for 800V/350kW+ charging ?
Isn't the Tesla semi a completely different connection?The NACS standard allows for up to 1MW charging at 1kV.
I'm only talking about the NACS. I haven't been following the tesla semi but I thought they were planning on having it use the same form factor but have 2 sockets that can be used at the same time. I think a few things should be clarified:Isn't the Tesla semi a completely different connection?
What V/A limits are there for the current connector, which given usual automotive timelines seems to be the only one that will be available to Fords for the next few years?I'm only talking about the NACS. I haven't been following the tesla semi but I thought they were planning on having it use the same form factor but have 2 sockets that can be used at the same time. I think a few things should be clarified:
- NACS is a standard, not a single connector. In that standard they have different configurations for 500v and 1,000v designs. Read here if you're interested.
- The tesla connector today doesn't support this 1kV/1MW charging the NACS documents refer to. It's the same FORM FACTOR but the guts of the design are different. I believe the length of the charge connector is also increased over the current supercharger connectors.
- The meat and potatoes of the tesla design is the shared AC/DC pins and compact packaging due to that. CCS has separate DC and AC pins.
- They don't specify an amperage limit of the connector, they just say they've tested the design up to 900A (not quite 1MW). This is going to be determined more by the physics of insulation and cooling capabilities. I've always been concerned about the compact design of the tesla connector reaching a limit of the physics of being able to get rid of heat quickly enough to prevent insulation degradation (insulation capacity reduces exponentially as temperature increases). As you increase voltage to 1kV this becomes significant. It's going to take a lot of clever design and expensive insulation material to prevent any issues.
500v and I think they can peak around 600A. But they derate shortly after hitting those peaks.What V/A limits are there for the current connector, which given usual automotive timelines seems to be the only one that will be available to Fords for the next few years?
Last-ditch effort to move the US over to that connector before it’s really, finally too late. That’s my interpretation. The adoption curve between here and 5 years from now is pretty steep, so still maybe a chance to get this in before the absolute # of EVs on the road doubles, triples, quadruples..I’m confused why Ford would outfit their new cars with the Tesla connector, and the supply chain needed for that, instead of just shipping with the adapter.
My parents also have a much easier time with Tesla compared to CCS. And honestly I do too. Getting the whole CCS apparatus lined up is a faff compared to inserting the much smaller form factor Tesla plug.I’m really conflicted about this. Not gonna re-cap why Tesla/Elon are problematic. In addition it feels simultaneously “too late” to change the charging standard but also if it’s ever going to change, this is probably the last possible moment. So maybe they can sneak it in just before EVs really take off here?
If they manage to get one more big EV manufacturer or one of the major charging networks, it feels like there’s a real chance it changes. Have to move fast though.
I do think the Tesla connector design is better than CCS.
- CCS is ugly.
- Smaller connector is better for humans, even if cables end up the same weight.
- The additional physical-only lever-lock on CCS/J1772 is often forgotten about when people disconnect. I’ve seen a lot of them broken. Between trying to turn off from the charger, vs convince the car to disconnect, vs physically levering that final latch, I can see why people sometimes get impatient and forget to hold down the latch. (And I’ve observed my parents failing to do this too, more below.) (Yes, I understand electronic latch has a more annoying failure case, but in practice it’s less common than the physical latch being broken by impatient people.)
- Casual drivers really don’t understand when/why they’d have the DC pins, so having a separate cover is an additional complication. I pretty regularly see people try to jab the CCS in, then realize they have to move their DC cover.
- We’ve had prior threads discussing how CCS connectivity issues are partially because the data pins are at the top, while the meaty heavy pins are at the bottom, so the connector leans in exactly the right way to decrease data pin connections.
- I’ve rented a Tesla with my parents, and they recently purchased a Mach-E, so I’ve observed them charging both. It’s not just the cable weight that makes CCS really difficult for them. Lining up those bottom pins and pressing in the top is a maneuver that young folk like me find easy, sure, but it remains an issue for them.
On the other hand, having two different connectors this far into adoption is annoying and it’ll be terrible if we just end up having both for a very long time. Only one connector that’s CCS is better than having adapters for the rest of time.
V4 superchargers seem to be rated for 615A and 1mVMy parents also have a much easier time with Tesla compared to CCS. And honestly I do too. Getting the whole CCS apparatus lined up is a faff compared to inserting the much smaller form factor Tesla plug.
I think my ideal would be a Tesla-like connector/cable if it could safely get to 300-400kW sustained (as thats going to be the need in the near future) and that be the standard worldwide. But given that Tesla for the near/mid term will be limited to 250kW sustained, and the growing number of CCS cars here, I guess I’m for a more rapid shift towards CCS + adapters at SuperChargers.
my guess is, as you indicate, this is a last ditch attempt to shift to the Tesla standard - or at least to get the federal subsidies associated with charging infrastructure - before the onslaught of CCS vehicles and the CCS network build out.
electrek.co
Am finding it hard to get an unconflicted take on whether those ratings can be deployed safely in a form factor like the Tesla connector. I guess if we see cars getting 350kW+ rates via a Tesla style connector, where the AC/DC pins are shared then that would do it. But we haven’t yet seen that and wont until v4 superchargers roll out in N America, and we see newer 800V+ cars getting those kind of rates here. The Cybertruck supposedly is able to accept a high kW rate but of course can’t tell until it’s fully launched and deliveries start.Granted this is Europe and CCS but no reason to assume this won't work with their native connectors.
Apart from the connector, reliability, lack of plug and charge and needing different apps for different DCFC charging networks is really holding back CCS in the US. The first time that I charged my P2 at EA was a pain. Especially figuring which method of initializing the charging session was better (EA card in my apple wallet has never worked for me). I did see the new i5 will be plug and play compatible at EA.I’m really conflicted about this. Not gonna re-cap why Tesla/Elon are problematic. In addition it feels simultaneously “too late” to change the charging standard but also if it’s ever going to change, this is probably the last possible moment. So maybe they can sneak it in just before EVs really take off here?
If they manage to get one more big EV manufacturer or one of the major charging networks, it feels like there’s a real chance it changes. Have to move fast though.
I do think the Tesla connector design is better than CCS.
- CCS is ugly.
- Smaller connector is better for humans, even if cables end up the same weight.
- The additional physical-only lever-lock on CCS/J1772 is often forgotten about when people disconnect. I’ve seen a lot of them broken. Between trying to turn off from the charger, vs convince the car to disconnect, vs physically levering that final latch, I can see why people sometimes get impatient and forget to hold down the latch. (And I’ve observed my parents failing to do this too, more below.) (Yes, I understand electronic latch has a more annoying failure case, but in practice it’s less common than the physical latch being broken by impatient people.)
- Casual drivers really don’t understand when/why they’d have the DC pins, so having a separate cover is an additional complication. I pretty regularly see people try to jab the CCS in, then realize they have to move their DC cover.
- We’ve had prior threads discussing how CCS connectivity issues are partially because the data pins are at the top, while the meaty heavy pins are at the bottom, so the connector leans in exactly the right way to decrease data pin connections.
- I’ve rented a Tesla with my parents, and they recently purchased a Mach-E, so I’ve observed them charging both. It’s not just the cable weight that makes CCS really difficult for them. Lining up those bottom pins and pressing in the top is a maneuver that young folk like me find easy, sure, but it remains an issue for them.
On the other hand, having two different connectors this far into adoption is annoying and it’ll be terrible if we just end up having both for a very long time. Only one connector that’s CCS is better than having adapters for the rest of time.
The Ford- Tesla partnership also includes plug and charge with FordPassApart from the connector, reliability, lack of plug and charge and needing different apps for different DCFC charging networks is really holding back CCS in the US. The first time that I charged my P2 at EA was a pain. Especially figuring which method of initializing the charging session was better (EA card in my apple wallet has never worked for me). I did see the new i5 will be plug and play compatible at EA.
