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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

For MY2021 Volvo have introduced sleeping keyfobs, these will only respond to RF signals from the car when the key is, or has recently been in motion. This is intended to defeat signal relay thefts of vehicles. Does anyone know if this tech is also in the polestar keys (gut feeling is yes, as they appear to be the same key in a different casing).

Perhaps someone can test it out if nobody can confirm from knowledge?
 

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The Polestar keys are not of the same sleeping kind. For my insurance, I had my 2 bulky keys adapted to make them sleeping and completely disconnected the small keyfob from my car. Quite an expensive hack (350 Eur for change and certification + 150 Eur Volvo dealer to reprogram the keys) but it has lowered my (Dutch) insurance significantly. Considering the Keyless Relay Attack is known for years, it is disappointing that Polestar has not embedded the fix for this.
 

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If they introduced this for MY2021 shouldn't Polestar have this too at least? Even though this does not eliminate the relay attack it only makes it unlikely at night, etc. but directly when your still walking its easy. UWB support would be great. Snood do you know if they support UWB as a counter measure to relay attacks.
 

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I bought those same bags. Two of the brick-keys fit in one pouch - tight fit, but they go in.

My daily key is the activity key, and that fits in the other pouch complete with my house keys.

The bags are 100% effective. Even right next to the car (literally touching the place where the sensor is), it won't unlock if the key is in the bag.
 

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The Polestar keys are not of the same sleeping kind. For my insurance, I had my 2 bulky keys adapted to make them sleeping and completely disconnected the small keyfob from my car. Quite an expensive hack (350 Eur for change and certification + 150 Eur Volvo dealer to reprogram the keys) but it has lowered my (Dutch) insurance significantly. Considering the Keyless Relay Attack is known for years, it is disappointing that Polestar has not embedded the fix for this.
I asked the question to Polestar customer support about 4 weeks ago. It's taken them a long time to eventually respond, despite me chasing them, but I got a response today "Polestar's technology is the same as Volvo's. If a key is left on a table for example and after 30 seconds of being stationary it stops producing a signal, therefore it can't be cloned thus meaning Polestar's are not vulnerable to relay theft.".

Some further googling led me to an XC40 forum and this

I can confirm that my 2020 XC40 remote control key (big key with buttons) is also equipped with motion sensor. https://fccid.io/YGOHUF8423MS/Users-Man ... al-4372641

Check your key label next to the serial number, if the number reads HUF8423MS (big key, remove plastic cover and key blade to reveal the number) or HUF8432MS (small key) then it’s motion sensor equipped (MS stands for Motion Sensor)


I've checked my Polestar 'small key' and it has HUF8432MS serial number. So, from what Polestar has said, and from Volvo users it does appear to be the sleeping kind which offers a level of protection against relay theft...at least in the UK, I cannot speak for the rest of Europe.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I asked the question to Polestar customer support about 4 weeks ago. It's taken them a long time to eventually respond, despite me chasing them, but I got a response today "Polestar's technology is the same as Volvo's. If a key is left on a table for example and after 30 seconds of being stationary it stops producing a signal, therefore it can't be cloned thus meaning Polestar's are not vulnerable to relay theft.".

Some further googling led me to an XC40 forum and this

I can confirm that my 2020 XC40 remote control key (big key with buttons) is also equipped with motion sensor. https://fccid.io/YGOHUF8423MS/Users-Man ... al-4372641

Check your key label next to the serial number, if the number reads HUF8423MS (big key, remove plastic cover and key blade to reveal the number) or HUF8432MS (small key) then it’s motion sensor equipped (MS stands for Motion Sensor)


I've checked my Polestar 'small key' and it has HUF8432MS serial number. So, from what Polestar has said, and from Volvo users it does appear to be the sleeping kind which offers a level of protection against relay theft...at least in the UK, I cannot speak for the rest of Europe.
Great information! Thanks for sharing!
 

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Good to know! I asked the Polestar handover person and they didn't know the answer to this. So I'd been using my faraday-cage pouches for the keys that I had for my old M4 with keyless entry. But they have the added bonus of stopping the key case getting scratched.

I might buy some replacement Volvo fob covers instead and/or just let them go nude.
 

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Well I'm afraid I can debunk this idea. I had already casually tested this and believed they weren't sleeping, but I've done it more thoroughly now because the evidence above seemed quite compelling.

All my keys have the MS designation and I can confirm categorically that neither the activity key, nor the big key sleeps.

I placed the keys near the car in a safe place and unlocked, then locked the car.

I went back after 1 minute, 3 minutes, 5 minutes and 10 minutes and every time I could still open the car.

If these cars are not susceptible to relay theft, then why are Dutch owners being forced to delete the activity key from the car and have the two brick keys modified at significant cost?
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Well I'm afraid I can debunk this idea. I had already casually tested this and believed they weren't sleeping, but I've done it more thoroughly now because the evidence above seemed quite compelling.

All my keys have the MS designation and I can confirm categorically that neither the activity key, nor the big key sleeps.

I placed the keys near the car in a safe place and unlocked, then locked the car.

  1. I went back after 1 minute, 3 minutes, 5 minutes and 10 minutes and every time I could still open the car.

If these cars are not susceptible to relay theft, then why are Dutch owners being forced to delete the activity key from the car and have the two brick keys modified at significant cost?
Hmm, that puts a downer on things. @whiteco3 are you able to continue the discussion with Polestar with regard to @stevelup 's experience. Can someone else who is lucky enough to have their car already try it out also? @krheinwald, perhaps you could test like Steve has done, get some evidence from outside the UK too?

edit: @stevelup what happes if you try the following:
  1. lock the car and move the key out of range of the car for a few minutes
  2. bring the key back in range and wait for a minute.
  3. Try to unlock?
I wonder if the key remaining in proximity to the car keeps the key awake. I suppose to test this fully you need two keys and do the following:

  1. lock the car with key1 and place the key somewhere out of range of the car BUT that you can move the car to.
  2. leave key1 unmoved and wait a minute or so
  3. use key2 to move the car so it is close key1
  4. lock the car with key2 and move it out of range of the car
  5. return to the car without key2, leaving key1 sitting still
  6. the car should not unlock
 

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Maybe stupid thought but is not it so that the signal goes asleep as long as the key stays untouched? As soon as you take the key again the signal will start again. So the test should be without touching any key
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Maybe stupid thought but is not it so that the signal goes asleep as long as the key stays untouched? As soon as you take the key again the signal will start again. So the test should be without touching any key
Yes, you're exactly right, the test I propose involves leaving key1 to sleep (if it will) but it also goes further than @stevelup already tested (he tested by leaving the key untouched) by also moving the key out of radio range of the car just in case by being close to the key it keeps the key awake
 
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Regardless of what anyone tells me ... I'll be using Faraday for my keys.

I will not be taking any chances after my Jag was stolen and my house had an attempted breaking for my Stinger Keys.

I now have a security door, a telescopic pole for the drive way, and will keep using blockers for the keys. I even have a full cover steering wheel lock if I want even more!
 

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Well i certainly would feel a little bit more relaxt if i would be 100% sure that the signal stops after being untouched for 30 seconds. Does the signal only stop when staying untouched OUTSIDE the normal active distance from the car? Or also when untouched within the circle?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well i certainly would feel a little bit more relaxt if i would be 100% sure that the signal stops after being untouched for 30 seconds. Does the signal only stop when staying untouched OUTSIDE the normal active distance from the car? Or also when untouched within the circle?
That's what my proposed test should prove either way. I can't test it myself as my car is currently a widely distributed pile of parts and sheet metal in China.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Regardless of what anyone tells me ... I'll be using Faraday for my keys.

I will not be taking any chances after my Jag was stolen and my house had an attempted breaking for my Stinger Keys.

I now have a security door, a telescopic pole for the drive way, and will keep using blockers for the keys. I even have a full cover steering wheel lock if I want even more!
What a shame that you should even need to take such precautions.
 

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@stevelup cheers for that. I guess I'll be keeping my Faraday pouches!
 
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