[zenken]

An early review video of the Polestar 2 seems to show no physical (non software) drive mode selector or shifter. Is it true?

I'm specifically talking about shifting in and out of strong regenerative braking, also known as "one pedal driving." There seems to be only one forward mode preset in the touchscreen?

For example, in my Chevy Bolt (on a 3yr lease expiring soon), I totally enjoy using the "transmission shifter" — a comfortable palm-size typical GM shifter located at the center console. Of course, it's not really a transmission shifter as there's no transmission in the Bolt EV. Flick it backwards, and it toggles between L and D mode. You can flick at any time while driving or when the car is ready to move forwards. There's no mechanical actuation. It's only an electronic switch, but the response is instantaneous. L mode in the Bolt is very strong regen braking, the strongest in all currently selling EVs. D mode lets you coast like in an automatic transmission ICE vehicle — there's still some gradual slowing, which is low regen in the Bolt, but the brake lights don't come on to annoy rear traffic. I use the Drive Mode Selector instead of moving my foot to the brake pedal.

This way, driving is very dynamic, flexible, fun — the best of both worlds (one-pedal driving and non one-pedal driving).

This seems not available in the Polestar 2?

Could be a deal breaker.

 

[JRRF]

The Polestar has something very similar but it is selectable on the control panel vs the shifter. You can have full regeneration, partial regeneration, or very little regeneration. If you put it on full you will have the same one pedal experience you have in the Bolt.

And as for the brake light, regardless of whether you are using one pedal driving or the brake pedal, if the car begins to slow beyond a certain g-force, the brake lights will come on. I know it works this way in the Bolt, and I'm fairly certain it's the same for the Polestar. And just like the Bolt, the Polestar brake pedal uses a blended system of regen first and then friction brakes.

 

[zenken]

The Polestar has something very similar but it is selectable on the control panel vs the shifter. You can have full regeneration, partial regeneration, or very little regeneration. If you put it on full you will have the same one pedal experience you have in the Bolt...

Thanks, but by "control panel" you mean the display screen, and therefore it's indeed only a software control, yes?

The benefit of the physical knob (as in the Bolt) is not just tactile and natural but immediate & instantaneous switchover while driving without taking eyes off the road. This is huge in my opinion.

As for the brake light coming on, the D mode in the Bolt allows some regen without invoking the alarm of flashing the brake lights. It's not the regen benefit that I primarily value in using D mode (in my Bolt) but instead the lack of brake light "alarm to rear traffic" while lifting off my foot repeatedly while driving.

 

[JRRF]

Yes, it's on the screen. The Bolt is software controlled also, but you activate it with a physical stick by going into L mode.

I agree that in D it's unlikely that the brake lights will come on, but they are not only activated by the brake pedal itself but by the amount of negative g's. I'm not a huge fan of one pedal driving and usually leave my car in D and so may set the P2 for minimal regen. What I have become used to is the regen paddle but the P2 does not have one of those. Maybe I'll get used to one pedal driving at some point, but it's hard to teach an old dog new tircks.

 

[zenken]

Yes, it's on the screen. The Bolt is software controlled also, but you activate it with a physical stick by going into L mode.

I agree that in D it's unlikely that the brake lights will come on, but they are not only activated by the brake pedal itself but by the amount of negative g's. I'm not a huge fan of one pedal driving and usually leave my car in D and so may set the P2 for minimal regen. What I have become used to is the regen paddle but the P2 does not have one of those. Maybe I'll get used to one pedal driving at some point, but it's hard to teach an old dog new tircks.

Again, I'm specifically talking about the quick flick to toggle the "shift lever" in the Bolt, just as an example in this discussion. Keep flicking and it keeps toggling back and forth with each flick. It's not the shifting action of putting the EV into L mode, such as when coming off Park mode. It's really just a flick, and done hundreds of times during driving. It's the purpose designed by the Bolt engineers. Perhaps few EV drivers, even Bolt drivers, are aware of the convenience because it's not broadly boasted in the Bolt forum. Also I saw a preview of the new model of Bolt, but that's a different topic.

I can tell you for a fact that D mode does not flash the brake lights. Not just "unlikely." Not just a knowledge about negative g-force. How do I know for sure? Well I've actually invented a reflective mirror that I attach to the rear window so I can see exactly when the rear brake lights come on. You could say I'm an advanced Bolt driver.

Brake Light Detector

The detector is actually a simple reflector. This reflector helps me understand the point when the brake lights come on during one-ped...

boltingnow.blogspot.com

As for the regen paddle on the steering column, it's another helpful additional control that I also use all the time, either in D or L mode. It's extra braking/regen while in L, which is really helpful when you need just a little more. It cancels cruise control with a tap. It's really another extra tactile control that, to me, is very welcomed in these new vehicles.

I can easily adapt to new driving modes, but for me as a current EV owner, going to rudimentary simple basic one-pedal driving alone without any of these extra tactile controls (shifter flick and paddle at steering column) is going backwards. New EV owners may feel like "old dogs learning new tricks" but I wouldn't want to go back.

 

[JRRF]

I will miss the regen paddle too. But if I can't do without it then I can't drive a P2 🙃

I can assure you that every EV out there activates the brake lights when regen hits a certain negative g-force without regard to the brake pedal. The same is true for ACC systems. The brake pedal will also activate the lights, but just think for a moment if you could do significant regen (via paddle, L, one pedal driving, ACC, etc.) without the brake lights activating. Accident rates would skyrocket, and the government has mandated it.

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (eCFR)

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (eCFR) published by the Government Publishing Office

www.ecfr.gov

 

[zenken]

I will miss the regen paddle too. But if I can't do without it then I can't drive a P2 🙃

I can assure you that every EV out there activates the brake lights when regen hits a certain negative g-force without regard to the brake pedal. The same is true for ACC systems. The brake pedal will also activate the lights, but just think for a moment if you could do significant regen (via paddle, L, one pedal driving, ACC, etc.) without the brake lights activating. Accident rates would skyrocket, and the government has mandated it.

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (eCFR)

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (eCFR) published by the Government Publishing Office

www.ecfr.gov

It's just a shame and could be a deal breaker for me. Not sure yet. Of course I'll have to test drive the P2 before deciding. But the topic here is just for discussion. If the P2 is absolutely rudimentary in this way, then definitely it'll make me think again before coughing up $60k+.

Not sure why you're repeatedly expounding on the brake light in regen mode. This topic is not about undoing it or not wanting it. At least I'm not at all saying I don't want it. Read my words again please.

In other words, wanting to conveniently/ quickly/ instantaneously/ safely/ physically flipping/ flicking/ switching to D mode is NOT wishing to eliminate the brake light when in strong regen (L) mode driving. This may get confusing if you're not an EV driver.

Another way of thinking of it, since you may not be experiencing it, is that it gives you control. Or more control. If you want to slow down strong and stop, you can (in L mode in the Bolt for example). But if you want to only slow gradually and not stop, then with a easy tactile flick in the Bolt for example, you can too. You're not forced to hold the accelerator pedal halfway after setting the software for strong regen. You would also have deliberate control of your brake lights as a result.

The discussion again is only about whether the convenient tactile control of flicking in an out is missing in the P2. Then maybe allow for opinion of whether it's a shame that it's missing in such a luxury EV.

 

[JRRF]

Not only am I an EV driver, but I've driven a Bolt on many occasions. I think what you are looking for may be unique to the Bolt, or Chevy. Chevy did a number of things with the Bolt and Volt to make them as similar to an ICE car as possible. Those were marketing decisions from 10 years ago. But that's not the general direction of the EV market today. And my suspicion is that you are unlikely to find it on newer cars, particularly higher end ones. Hyundai and Kia have some capable EVs that compete directly with the Bolt, and you might want to investigate if they have this unique feature.

 

[zenken]

Not only am I an EV driver, but I've driven a Bolt on many occasions. I think what you are looking for may be unique to the Bolt, or Chevy. Chevy did a number of things with the Bolt and Volt to make them as similar to an ICE car as possible. Those were marketing decisions from 10 years ago. But that's not the general direction of the EV market today. And my suspicion is that you are unlikely to find it on newer cars, particularly higher end ones. Hyundai and Kia have some capable EVs that compete directly with the Bolt, and you might want to investigate if they have this unique feature.

Indeed, it's probably a unique feature in the Bolt currently — this easy tactile flicking to go off strong regen (L mode in the Bolt). But it shouldn't be. The D mode is already known to be a transitional feature to help non EV drivers adapt. Some Bolt drivers, as they claim in the Bolt forum, even leave it in D all the time. But the easy flipping back and forth is a godsend. It's an extra feature. It gives you so much more control, not just as a transitional throwback to traditional coasting, but for smoother driving and less fatigue.

It should be copied by other auto makers or somehow implemented with another solution.

Without an easy and safe way to quickly switch down or switch lower to less strong regen while driving, it becomes very rudimentary and simplistic as a one-pedal driving system.

Staying only in strong regen mode gets tiring fast because you have to hold your foot halfway down on the accelerator pedal for half the time. I used to do that. The flipping of the "shifter" was the relief.

 

[polerad]

The Kia Niro EV (and I think Kona EV too) has paddles to control level of acceleration and level of braking on the steering wheel itself - not unlike paddle shifters on sports cars.
I admit I wish something like that was on the P2. Would be great if one of the steering wheel buttons could be repurposed for this or if the gear selector could be used.

Having to touchscreen this is not ideal - although I think it's just two taps, one to get to the drive settings, and another to hit the braking setting.

Voice activation for this switch seems cumbersome, although I guess I would mainly be switching from one pedal operation to coasting on the highway and back to one pedal for the city or suburban streets.

 

[zenken]

Another way to look at this issue is that many other EVs don't have a strong regen as strong as the Bolt in L mode. Those vehicles cannot come to a full stop in reasonable short distance unless you use the brake pedal. Their brake pedals, as in the Bolt, also offer some regen, but avoiding any wasteful friction to stop is always the higher preference.

And the reason those other EVs don't offer a strong regen is that it really gets tiring having to hold your foot halfway down during regular driving. Some people might argue that it's just something you get used to. But in my opinion, it's just tiring. The issue also involves how strong they build the springload on the accelerator pedal. Bigger vehicles have stronger spring. Smaller vehicles, like the Bolt, have softer weaker springs where it's more uncomfortable if you wear heavy boots while driving.

And so, with previews and reviews showing the P2 offering very strong regen, which I totally welcome, it only makes sense that they would also offer a quick way to flip out of it while driving.

If there's really no option, then it's just a shame because the P2 has literally everything else in spades.

 

[JRRF]

Staying only in strong regen mode gets tiring fast because you have to hold your foot halfway down on the accelerator pedal for half the time. I used to do that. The flipping of the "shifter" was the relief.

I usually leave it in D and use the paddle. But only with the brake pedal can I completely and smoothly modulate deceleration.

 

[zenken]

The Kia Niro EV (and I think Kona EV too) has paddles to control level of acceleration and level of braking on the steering wheel itself - not unlike paddle shifters on sports cars.
I admit I wish something like that was on the P2. Would be great if one of the steering wheel buttons could be repurposed for this or if the gear selector could be used.

Having to touchscreen this is not ideal - although I think it's just two taps, one to get to the drive settings, and another to hit the braking setting.

Voice activation for this switch seems cumbersome, although I guess I would mainly be switching from one pedal operation to coasting on the highway and back to one pedal for the city or suburban streets.

While living with the Bolt (for nearly 3 yrs now), I've thought about how anything other than a center console "shifter knob" can possibly do it. I don't think any other mechanism (if only electronic mechanism) is better. The paddle is good but only if the steering wheel is relatively upright. Because when the steering wheel is cranked even only halfway, the search for the paddle gets awkward. Sometimes I'm grabbing the left paddle with my right hand!

Same for any button on the steering wheel that's customizable for the task.

Voice activation can get hilarious or dangerous. What if you're on the phone via bluetooth speaker?

 

[factor]

Also, note that braking with the P2 (up until a pressure point) does increase the regen strength rather than invoking the friction brakes (some other EVs only use friction braking entirely). So you can still increase regen but it won't be with one peddle driving.

 

[JRRF]

Also, note that braking with the P2 (up until a pressure point) does increase the regen strength rather than invoking the friction brakes (some other EVs only use friction braking entirely). So you can still increase regen but it won't be with one peddle driving.

I think this is a must, and if I'm not correct, Tesla does not have it.

 

[zenken]

As I understand, the bit of regen from friction brakes, if any, is miniscule compared to the regen of the motors. Am I correct? Not easy to modulate, either.

And it's just a mechanical limitation due to brake caliper size or something? [rhetorical question]

The Chevy Bolt was designed with such thoughtfulness to driving dynamics (very strong regen, the shifter toggle, the paddle) that I would expect any later-model luxury EV to be superior or at least similar. Hopefully I get a pleasant surprise when I test drive the P2. There has to be something more than rudimentary one-pedal driving like a glorified golf cart.

 

[JRRF]

The P2 has blended brakes just like the Bolt. Most of the travel does not engage the friction brakes at all. Only at the bottom do the calipers engage the disks. I find modulation on the Bolt to be fairly easy.

The calipers don't do regen (on the P2 or the Bolt). All the regen is done with the motors with software blending in the calipers only as necessary to generate the stopping force your foot is requesting.

 

[zenken]

The P2 has blended brakes just like the Bolt. Most of the travel does not engage the friction brakes at all. Only at the bottom do the calipers engage the disks. I find modulation on the Bolt to be fairly easy.

The calipers don't do regen (on the P2 or the Bolt). All the regen is done with the motors with software blending in the calipers only as necessary to generate the stopping force your foot is requesting.

You're the first one to claim that modulating the brakes for regen in the Bolt is fairly easy. I couldn't disagree more, especially compared to simple L mode toggle and letting the main traction motors do its thing.

You're also contradicting yourself in "calipers don't do regen" then "software blending in the calipers only..." Whatever the specific brake component is called, it's not the main regen of the motors without touching the brake pedal.

 

[JRRF]

You're the first one to claim that modulating the brakes for regen in the Bolt is fairly easy. I couldn't disagree more, especially compared to simple L mode toggle and letting the main traction motors do its thing.

You're also contradicting yourself in "calipers don't do regen" then "software blending in the calipers only..." Whatever the specific brake component is called, it's not the main regen of the motors without touching the brake pedal.

The sw blends the motors with the calipers. Those are the 2 braking components. The pedal first engages the motors for regen, then as necessary (through a sw algorithm) the calipers are engaged for friction braking.

Motors do regen. Calipers do friction. The software blends the two based on pedal deflection and pedal engagement speed.

 

[zenken]

The sw blends the motors with the calipers. Those are the 2 braking components. The pedal first engages the motors for regen, then as necessary (through a sw algorithm) the calipers are engaged for friction braking.

Motors do regen. Calipers do friction. The software blends the two based on pedal deflection and pedal engagement speed.

Seems you really want to showcase your knowledge, though irrelevant.