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Some references to internal Tesla documents there showing above 10% loss.
Looking at the EPA test data, the 2022 Polestar/Volvo charging losses are the among the worst I've seen. The 2021 test was within what I would consider to be "normal" for 240V charging (10% +/-2%).
EPA testing runs the vehicle until it stops, then measures the energy (from the wall) needed to recharge to 100%.

The 2021 model took 85.3 kWh, which translates to a 12% charging loss (assuming 75 kWh as usable)
The 2022 took 94.0 kWh, which is a 20% charging loss. (The 2022 XC40 Recharge was 93.1 kWh)

My working theory is a BMS software change (increased thermal management of the battery?), and/or they recharged at different lengths of time after completing the test (different battery pack temp?). Also possible that they used different amperage EVSEs (Voltage is shown - 240 nominal - but not amperage).

2022 test data:
2021:
 
There are always going to be inefficiencies both with charging and discharging. Lots of factors, no doubt, but it seems the 10% loss is often cited as a good average. So, drive up a hill, lose 10%. Use only regen coming down, get back 90%.

I suspect additional "losses" when charging do indeed include temperature management of the battery. Generating heat, or getting rid of it, is expensive, power-wise. I note my car uses about 17 amps to precondition the cabin on a cold day. I imagine dealing with the battery is tougher yet.
 
I note my car uses about 17 amps to precondition the cabin on a cold day. I imagine dealing with the battery is tougher yet.
I’m on a 2.4kW charger at home. It can heat the interior but not the interior and the battery.

Sat on a 7kW charger I had both battery and cabin heated recently. The difference in consumption was huge.
 
Can anyone elaborate why DC fast charging is not good for the battery? Also is there a fixed lifetime fast charging number above which the battery will decay x%? Has there been any empirical study done on this? Is there a theoretical threshold on fast charging cycle and battery decay?
In a word, Physics. Same reason your tyres will wear out faster if you drive to the vehicle's limits, or where the term "live fast, die young" comes from.

Technically, the same question could be rephrased to "slow charging prolongs battery life"...
 
I’m on a 2.4kW charger at home. It can heat the interior but not the interior and the battery.

Sat on a 7kW charger I had both battery and cabin heated recently. The difference in consumption was huge.
Not surprisingly really. 2.4kW is basically just a hair dryer.
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
Not surprisingly this thread has deviated quite a bit. From physics for EV owners to structural engineering of buildings, I know, me too, guilty as charged.

I read a lot of the discussions on this forum, some based on knowledge, some based on experience, some based on guesses and some based on ... faith. I will add to the post based on what I read. Feel free to comment, I will not go into arguing details, but if I feel there is something incorrect, unclear or important missing I will update.

Anyway, I have updated the original post adding material about batteries. I will continue to add material as time allows.
 
Not sure if this has been shared elsewhere, but while thinking about the impact of elevation gain/loss on energy consumption, I stumbled across an easy-to-recall coincidence. Turns out that 100m of elevation gain will consume 1.0% battery life (assumptions below). Seems like an easy rule of thumb to keep in mind for long uphill climbs.
Image
 
Not sure if this has been shared elsewhere, but while thinking about the impact of elevation gain/loss on energy consumption, I stumbled across an easy-to-recall coincidence. Turns out that 100m of elevation gain will consume 1.0% battery life (assumptions below). Seems like an easy rule of thumb to keep in mind for long uphill climbs.
View attachment 11320
Haha - I was about to post my back-of-the-envelope calculation for why this figure is correct, then I noticed that you had already included a much more precise calculation as an image. 🤓
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
Luckily you get a good part of that back on your return down :) .
 
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My empirical observations lead me to believe it's more than a 1% lose when going uphill. I may have to pay closer attention the next time.
Just to be clear, it's 1% battery consumption per 100m elevation gain (and a reduction of 1% battery consumption per 100m elevation loss coming back down). Very different than a 1% increase in the rate of battery consumption relative to driving on flat terrain - it could easily be double depending on how steep the climb is.
 
I understand from this thread that since my home has a single phase 230v 50A, the smart charger that I intend to install, Smappee EV Wall 1-phase up to 7.4kw, is largely enough for charging nightly. Am I right ?
By the way Belgian owners, any feedback on Smappee?
 
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