Polestar Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,594 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
But this would mean that heating/climatisation is not considered for the consumption value - it was not off during your test drive acc. the pictures.
Heating/climatisation is indeed not considered for the consumption value - not even for range :rolleyes:
Gadget Audio equipment Communication Device Font Display device
Audio equipment Electronic instrument Gadget Font Gas
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,594 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Maybe I'm missing something in the screenshots, but how did you conclude that?
It's hard to see, but in the second one, climate is turned off. Climate consumption (lower left) reflects it, but not range (top left) and total consumption (top right)

Edit: I am aware that this was a quick&dirty test and time might show something different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
It's hard to see, but in the second one, climate is turned off. Climate consumption (lower left) reflects it, but not range (top left) and total consumption (top right)

Edit: I am aware that this was a quick&dirty test and time might show something different.
I saw that but it's during the same minute. How often do you think they recalculate it?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,594 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I saw that but it's during the same minute. How often do you think they recalculate it?
When driving, consumption is updated every second, with a decay time of ~15s.

Edit: The climate consumption changed instantly. I would expect range to be recalculated together with the significant change instantly as well - i.e. event, not time based.

As I said, it is a hypothesis based on single datum and it might change when more data points are available.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ProfessorCook

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
When driving, consumption is updated every second, with a decay time of ~15s.

Edit: The climate consumption changed instantly. I would expect range to be recalculated together with the significant change instantly as well - i.e. event, not time based.

As I said, it is a hypothesis based on single datum and it might change when more data points are available.
You lost me here. Does climate affect the instant consumption (shown in the range assistant) or does it not?

If it does not, then it is pretty useless, as climate really affects consumption and range.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,594 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You lost me here. Does climate affect the instant consumption (shown in the range assistant) or does it not?
One picture has the heater blowing, the other one not. Both pictures show zero instant consumption, while one even shows high climate consumption Both pictures show the same projected range as well.

So my preliminary conclusion is that instant consumption is based on the motors only and not affected by climate.

Instant consumption does show negative values when recuperating, though.

Not sure what to think of the projected range yet. IMHO, turning AC on/off should - or switching to Eco climate - have an immediate impact on the projected range, otherwise it would not be very helpful. This might need a longer drive to better understand, I only drove 30mins with the new version yet.

Actually, this might be a good excuse for a short trip to the sea tomorrow :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
592 Posts
I'm reading all this and wondering what the point is. Instant consumption is hardly an indicator for range. Range depends on the route, the weather and or your driving style. Google and ABRP have a real good handle on this and accurately predict SoC at arrival. What is the use of this new app? Show me predicted SoC at arrival in the main screen with the navigation info.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
One picture has the heater blowing, the other one not.
I guess (and it hould be) that a low pass filter is implemented in calculation for instant consumption to avoid toggling. So you should wait a few minutes (much longer than a single reccurrence) to get a change in the value.

But let's wait and see after your trip🤓
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,361 Posts
From my experience driving a low range Volt where every little bit counted, I found that the use of AC in ECO mode was almost imperceptible when it came to range, compared to non-ECO mode which had a very small impact, compared the electric heat which had a significant impact on range.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,594 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Uwe: TBH, I couldn't care less about the range assistant. I probably won't use it more often than I used the driving stats: once or twice out of curiosity. I use ABRP and GM and know how I can influence my consumption. I think we all do, as the basic rules are still the same as with ICEs.

Having a range indicator in the dash is nice, but not really necessary. If it is there, it should make sense and somehow be related to my current driving style and consumption.

Having the predicted target SoC always visible (ideally in the dash, at least on the GM tile) would be more important IMHO.

(Spliting the thread here as we disgress)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,361 Posts
As range of cars increases and infrastructure becomes more built out, this functionality becomes less and less valuable. We never had this on ICE cars (looking at and tweaking our consumption). You just look at the fuel gauge (battery %), and when it gets low you go and fill up (plug-in). We need to readjust our mindset.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
One picture has the heater blowing, the other one not. Both pictures show zero instant consumption, while one even shows high climate consumption Both pictures show the same projected range as well.

So my preliminary conclusion is that instant consumption is based on the motors only and not affected by climate.

Instant consumption does show negative values when recuperating, though.

Not sure what to think of the projected range yet. IMHO, turning AC on/off should - or switching to Eco climate - have an immediate impact on the projected range, otherwise it would not be very helpful. This might need a longer drive to better understand, I only drove 30mins with the new version yet.

Actually, this might be a good excuse for a short trip to the sea tomorrow :cool:
You aren't moving. Any power draw while not moving would give an instantaneous consumption of infinity, so it's not surprising it still shows 0 kWh/100 km.

I think the other posters are correct that the range displayed in the instrument cluster isn't really based on actual consumption, but battery SoC. I would then assume the range displayed on the range assistant, which is based on actual consumption, is still a filtered/averaged value, so I wouldn't expect the heater to have an instant affect on displayed range. In the long term the draw from climate isn't really that high, especially when it's just maintaining temperature.

EDIT: Also, just because it's blowing warm/hot air doesn't mean the heating element is actually powered on. I'm assuming it's typical setup where it's actually a heating element heating the coolant, then the cabin is heated with a traditional heater core. By heating the coolant loop that's how you heat the battery, but also allows heat to be scavenged from the batteries and motors to heat the cabin.

When Tesla added the heat pump they actually got rid of the resistive heating element. Instead, if the heat pump can't provide enough heat, they run the motors inefficiently to generate extra heat, which is used to heat the cabin.
 

·
Registered
Polestar 2 (Thunder/Slate)
Joined
·
1,020 Posts
You aren't moving. Any power draw while not moving would give an instantaneous consumption of infinity, so it's not surprising it still shows 0 kWh/100 km.

I think the other posters are correct that the range displayed in the instrument cluster isn't really based on actual consumption, but battery SoC. I would then assume the range displayed on the range assistant, which is based on actual consumption, is still a filtered/averaged value, so I wouldn't expect the heater to have an instant affect on displayed range. In the long term the draw from climate isn't really that high, especially when it's just maintaining temperature.
I vaguely remember reading something mentioning that the higher the SoC the less it takes into account recent consumption, so using some predetermined ratio, but as the SoC drops to lower values recent consumption bias is increased, which seems plausible given how my guessometer works.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,361 Posts
If anything the range in the cluster needs to be a broad average, possibly over driving habits of several days. Otherwise it would wind up being a joke.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,361 Posts
I vaguely remember reading something mentioning that the higher the SoC the less it takes into account recent consumption, so using some predetermined ratio, but as the SoC drops to lower values recent consumption bias is increased, which seems plausible given how my guessometer works.
This makes a lot of sense too.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top