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I mean it better since the P3 should compete with the Model X both in size, class and price. The P4 is what would be in the segment of the Model Y.

As for holding up I’ve been in very early Polestar 2s that have been rental cars since then that were holding up very nicely so I think they would be better than the Teslas that use very poor plastic in some interior areas.

While still early, and I don;’t think pricing for Polestar’s new variants have been decided, I believe they will be significantly less pricy (at least the P3) to the tesla X….which, to be brutally honest, I have seen only one - ever. Base price for the X is about $120K….and there are many (better) SUV’s available at that price point. Certainly NOT popular where I live on the East Coast. Maybe in Ca they are? Don’t know? See lots of the 3 and S, and some Y, but virtually no X.
 

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While still early, and I don;’t think pricing for Polestar’s new variants have been decided, I believe they will be significantly less pricy (at least the P3) to the tesla X….which, to be brutally honest, I have seen only one - ever. Base price for the X is about $120K….and there are many (better) SUV’s available at that price point. Certainly NOT popular where I live on the East Coast. Maybe in Ca they are? Don’t know? See lots of the 3 and S, and some Y, but virtually no X.
They have already talked rough prices which was 75-110k EUR, where I’m guessing the 75k is a smaller battery and no packages so 90-100k is probably where the average car will sit. Tesla did raise the prices a lot due to demand so I guess it is higher now than at launch so it is more expensive now.

The thing that might make it hard for Polestar is that they will build it in the US so they might have trouble selling a luxury SUV to the rest of the world if the build quality is lacking.
 

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Yeah it does seem quality comes way down when built in the US. My Toyotas that were built in Japan and my Lexus were top quality...once they started building in the US it was all downhill
 

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They have already talked rough prices which was 75-110k EUR, where I’m guessing the 75k is a smaller battery and no packages so 90-100k is probably where the average car will sit. Tesla did raise the prices a lot due to demand so I guess it is higher now than at launch so it is more expensive now.
As I said, I don’t think they compete from the price point perspective, and fully expect the P3 in the States, that is modestly equipped, to come in at around $75K. But we’ll see what the final number turns out to be? Then, you also have the $7,500 tax discount here in the states, for the Polestar, that Tesla no longer qualifies for, I believe?

As far as “demand for the X”…since it‘s first full year of production in 2017 (was introduced 2 years earlier, but few deliveries), US sales numbers show it to bounce between 20K-30K per year, with the 2021 trend showing a sharp decline in US sales figure (ie, 7,306). With the arrival of a host of better, upscale SUV’s coming soon, including the Cadillac Lyriq, Benz, Audi, and maybe the P3?), the sales numbers for the X look gloomy, at best.



The thing that might make it hard for Polestar is that they will build it in the US so they might have trouble selling a luxury SUV to the rest of the world if the build quality is lacking.

Maybe? But that’s pure conjecture on your part. All of BMW’s ICE SUV’s are made in the US…not Germany. I know many, many, many people in the States that have BMW SUV’s, including my oldest son in Chicago (heart of the US auto industry), and never heard anyone complain about poor build quality? As is the case with most automotive manufacturers, no matter where their assembly plants are located, the designs, material quality, quality control inspections, robotic assemblies…are all pretty much set by the parent company. Case in point - I bought a new 2021 Porsche 911/992 which is only made in Germany, although many parts/components in my car, come from all over the world…tires from a Russian plant, chips from Korea, displays from Vietnam, etc….and while I love my 992, the build quality is NOT what I expected from a $160K, German designed and assembled car. And I am not alone in this observation.

Do Europeans even buy many SUV’s? Last time I was visiting, can’t say I saw many? Certainly, Europeans are not truck crazed like many Americans. That being said, I’m pretty sure the primary focus for Polestar’s SUV is on the American market, where SUV’s have replaced the suburban minivan, and are widely popular in the States. Second only to trucks, sadly.
 

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Yeah it does seem quality comes way down when built in the US. My Toyotas that were built in Japan and my Lexus were top quality...once they started building in the US it was all downhill
Many popular Subaru models are built in the States, and in particular, Indiana. I don’t believe Subaru’s have a quality control problem?
 

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Many popular Subaru models are built in the States, and in particular, Indiana. I don’t believe Subaru’s have a quality control problem?
Toyota definitely does. I had a 2004 Sienna (wife totalled it in 2013 :mad: ), it was built in Japan and the quality was excellent. In the 8 years and 140K we owned it, we never had any issues with it. After my wife totalled it we replaced it with a 2013 Sienna...built in the US. Quality is subpar, I've had to replace the struts twice, and had to replace the suspension. It's had several recalls, eats through tires and brakes and rattles like crazy. Engine and trans are the only thing solid on it.

Other Toyota owners have told me the same thing. Quality issues after they started building them here. Lexus owners on the other hand have way, way less complaints. My 12 year old IS350 was still like new. The only quality problem it had was a "sticky dash" issue where the dash materials began to melt...Lexus replaced the dash in one day and no other issues from the day I bought it to the day I sold it, which was in ealy July
 

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Toyota definitely does. I had a 2004 Sienna (wife totalled it in 2013 :mad: ), it was built in Japan and the quality was excellent. In the 8 years and 140K we owned it, we never had any issues with it. After my wife totalled it we replaced it with a 2013 Sienna...built in the US. Quality is subpar, I've had to replace the struts twice, and had to replace the suspension. It's had several recalls, eats through tires and brakes and rattles like crazy. Engine and trans are the only thing solid on it.

Other Toyota owners have told me the same thing. Quality issues after they started building them here. Lexus owners on the other hand have way, way less complaints. My 12 year old IS350 was still like new. The only quality problem it had was a "sticky dash" issue where the dash materials began to melt...Lexus replaced the dash in one day and no other issues from the day I bought it to the day I sold it, which was in ealy July

Not disputing your experiences. But the problem with anyone’s antidotal story is - anybody can find ones that are polar opposite.

Case in point - While the kids were young, we went through two SUVs. The first one was a Dodge caravan. Had it for about 5 years and was basically a piece of chit. So we got rid of it and bought a new 2000 Honda Odyssey (new model). Had great consumer reviews, etc. Highly rated and reliable? At around 35k, the transmission failed, and was replaced under warranty. At 101k miles, the transmission went out again, but no longer covered under Honda warrenty (missed it by 1,000 miles!. OK, my wife still liked the car, and I had invested all kinds of back seat video equipment, TV to keep our kids entertained on long trips…so we kept the Honda. Well, at about 160K it started to fail, again…but found an independent repair shop that said he could keep it running for a few more years. So, we kept it, but never trusted it on long trips. By 200K, the dash lights had all failed (couldn’t drive at night, and no, it wasn’t a case of bulbs had burnt out, but something electrical that required the entire dash to be taken apart), the nav had failed and a lot of other stuff on the car had failed, or was intermittent.

While I do agree with the observation that Japanese cars had the best quality control, for many decades, I don’t believe that to be universally true, today. I think many automotive manufacturers have copied what Japanese companies did for many decades, and now quality cars are made all around the globe. With robotics, car design/layout, material, and quality control inspections setting the tone for how reliable a car is in the 21st century.
 

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As I said, I don’t think they compete from the price point perspective, and fully expect the P3 in the States, that is modestly equipped, to come in at around $75K. But we’ll see what the final number turns out to be? Then, you also have the $7,500 tax discount here in the states, for the Polestar, that Tesla no longer qualifies for, I believe?

As far as “demand for the X”…since it‘s first full year of production in 2017 (was introduced 2 years earlier, but few deliveries), US sales numbers show it to bounce between 20K-30K per year, with the 2021 trend showing a sharp decline in US sales figure (ie, 7,306). With the arrival of a host of better, upscale SUV’s coming soon, including the Cadillac Lyriq, Benz, Audi, and maybe the P3?), the sales numbers for the X look gloomy, at best.
Well since they are talking EUR they are most likely talking including tax prices, so that is around 15-20% of the price they specified. So you are probably right that the Tesla will be a bit more expensive.

Far as I know you guys are remaking the tax credits so Tesla will be getting it again since they build them in NA.


Maybe? But that’s pure conjecture on your part. All of BMW’s ICE SUV’s are made in the US…not Germany. I know many, many, many people in the States that have BMW SUV’s, including my oldest son in Chicago (heart of the US auto industry), and never heard anyone complain about poor build quality? As is the case with most automotive manufacturers, no matter where their assembly plants are located, the designs, material quality, quality control inspections, robotic assemblies…are all pretty much set by the parent company. Case in point - I bought a new 2021 Porsche 911/992 which is only made in Germany, although many parts/components in my car, come from all over the world…tires from a Russian plant, chips from Korea, displays from Vietnam, etc….and while I love my 992, the build quality is NOT what I expected from a $160K, German designed and assembled car. And I am not alone in this observation.

Do Europeans even buy many SUV’s? Last time I was visiting, can’t say I saw many? Certainly, Europeans are not truck crazed like many Americans. That being said, I’m pretty sure the primary focus for Polestar’s SUV is on the American market, where SUV’s have replaced the suburban minivan, and are widely popular in the States. Second only to trucks, sadly.
It is probably just personal experiences but I’ve never been in an American car that wasn’t rattling and cheap feeling. When I got my Tesla I heard the old saying “Americans can’t build cars”, and in the end that was right because the Teslas were like all the other American cars I’ve been in. But you are probably correct and I’ve been in many cars that was built there and designed somewhere else that was good.

SUVs have become bigger here lately but Americans seem to like SUVs a lot more. I doubt they are making it for the US market specifically though since even though it probably is the biggest country in sales for Polestar it probably isn’t going to be over 50% of total sales. I think looking at Volvo sales is an okay prediction of where sales will happen.
 

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Well since they are talking EUR they are most likely talking including tax prices, so that is around 15-20% of the price they specified. So you are probably right that the Tesla will be a bit more expensive.

Far as I know you guys are remaking the tax credits so Tesla will be getting it again since they build them in NA.

A “bit” more expensive? That depends on your definition of what a “bit”, is? 😎

As “far as you know”? Again, conjecture. Changing the US tax code isn’t easy, nor a guaranteed.

As far as where Tesla’s are made:

”About half the 936,000 vehicles Tesla delivered last year came from Tesla's Gigafactory in Shanghai. Tesla made its Shanghai factory its primary vehicle export hub last year. Tesla's production at its Shanghai Gigafactory has overtaken that of its Fremont, California, factory.”


It is probably just personal experiences but I’ve never been in an American car that wasn’t rattling and cheap feeling. When I got my Tesla I heard the old saying “Americans can’t build cars”, and in the end that was right because the Teslas were like all the other American cars I’ve been in. But you are probably correct and I’ve been in many cars that was built there and designed somewhere else that was good.
My own RECENT experiences have been: My BMW M4 is extremely well made and maybe the most solid car I have ever owned. On the flip side, that other German made car that I own, which is more than 2X the price of my M4, the 2021 911/992S, is not especially solid. Although the engine and transmission, what Porsche’s are well known for, have no equal, and are amazing. Customer complaints of rattles and wind noises around the window sills are persistent. Software glitches are also a constant complaint with the new 911. New Car dead batteries, after a week or two without use, permeate the Porsche web sites. So, it’s hard to say that all European cars are built with quality, while all American made cars are rubbish. I will say this, however, with all the European cars I have recently bought, including the P2, the quality of material used in the cars is far superior to most American made cars.

SUVs have become bigger here lately but Americans seem to like SUVs a lot more. I doubt they are making it for the US market specifically though since even though it probably is the biggest country in sales for Polestar it probably isn’t going to be over 50% of total sales. I think looking at Volvo sales is an okay prediction of where sales will happen.
Without a doubt, SUV’s = America. American suburbanites love their SUV’s, and increasingly, even trucks. Heck, the new Ford F-150 EV truck, the lightening, already has over 200,000 advanced orders. I have no doubt that Polestars primary target for the SUV is the American market, which is also the most hotly contested segment of the car market….LOT of competition. LOT of different SUV models available for the consumer. The Tesla X is basically dying. They will need a whole new redesign of the X, if Tesla wants to remain competitive in the SUV segment. Even so, at only 7k sales in 2021, it looks like the X already has some nails in their coffin. In fact, tesla’s entire lineup (excluding that hideous truck) looks dated and needs some serious re-work. IMO, the ONLY brand that can get away with not significantly changing the body style after 6-8 years (or less) of production, is the Porsche 911. But that’s an icon, and the Tesla isn’t. At least in the American market, where the American attention span is fleeting….and always in search of the next new/shiny object.
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
I’m glad the final comment was a troll.

thanks everyone for the quality advice and thoughts , I must of forgot this wasn’t a forum Harley - back to your keyboard buddy

My final comment on this topic: If you need to ask a bunch of strangers for buying advice, I’d say get the Tesla. The differences are right in front of you. Seems you are swayed by peer pressure, and upstart Polestar might not be right for you when your Tesla friends ask you, “what car is that”, or why that car, nobody’s ever heard of it?

You will sleep better knowing that you went along with the Tesla herd. Good luck.
 
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Consider me interested, as like the OP I too am weighing up the relative pros and cons of these two cars.
Ok here goes...lol

So first thing I absolutely could not stand on my model y was the lack of a windshield wiper stalk. I don't even think it should be legal. Sure you have that silly little button at the end of your signal switch that you can get one sweep of the wipers but that doesn't really help when you are travelling on a highway and hit a wall of rain and need to throw your wipers on high speed in a hurry. In my opinion, there should be a physical device for complete wiper control so that you can operate it by feel and not have to take your eyes off the road to screw with some onscreen menus. There is also voice command, but that takes WAAAY too long to initiate when traveling at high speed. There is also very few options for intermittent speed. I think there was just two intermittent speeds and then low high and auto. Oh and auto is useless on Tesla. Tesla's auto setting at times won't wipe when your window is full of rain and then it may wipe a million times at full speed when there is just a bit of rain(because Tesla, being cheap again decided to omit a real rain sensor and rely on a camera for its auto wipers). Polestars auto setting works almost flawlessly and I can select it or deselect it by feel (on a physical wiper stalk) without taking eyes off the road to look at some ridiculous and dangerous menu. Or if you prefer, Polestar gives you the option to do things yourself and you can choose slow or fast or one of about 5 or 6 intermittent speeds (as opposed to Tesla's 2 or 3 intermittent speeds) all by just feel and not having to take your eyes off the road, as you have a physical wiper stalk. Tesla's entire wiper system is BY FAR the WORST I've even had the displeasure of using.

Just lack of physical controls in general was very annoying. If you want to make an adjustment to your air vents, you really shouldn't be punished by having to sort through onscreen menus to adjust them. Want to open your glove box? A menu? Seriously? Or voice command? Not so bad I suppose if you are sitting in the driver's seat but let's say you are outside your car and want to get into the glove box it's an absolute PITA. Ergonomically Teslas are likely THE WORST cars ever made. EVER! I remember when I was a young car enthusiast and read every issue of every major car magazine and ergonomics was always a big part of the overall evaluation of the car that was being tested. Nothing has changed. Ergonomics not only make your car safer to use but it enhances the driving experience and pleasure. Tesla ripped all those physical controls out of their cars two reasons. First and by far foremost is to cut costs. Second is to reduce weight. Don't buy into their minimalist marketing propaganda. If it was cheaper to out physical controls in you can rest assure they would have a million physical controls. Overall Tesla (model 3 and y) feel cheap inside and a lot of people confided after I got rid of it that they felt the same way. Remember, the model 3 was built as a 35k car, and the y about 10% more. The only reason it's cost more than that now is because of the unforseen shitstorm our world is in.

Another thing I absolutely hated was that their maps had no option to avoid freeways. Like wtf?!? Even my 2005 tomtom had that feature as has EVERY SINGLE GPS system I have ever seen in my entire life. What if you want to go on a leisurely trip the scenic way? Well, grab your phone and use Google maps or Apple maps because there is literally no way to do so in a Tesla.

No blind spot warnings in the mirrors. Again, inexcusable. Some people claim they don't use them, that's fine but most people do and to not have them again is just cost cutting, there is no other reason.

Plastic seats that they market as "vegan leather". I mean the seats reek of vinyl (figuratively not literally). And they have the nerve to charge 1000 bucks plus for a different colour of plastic. No cooling either...seriously?

Can't turn off one pedal driving. Again this is a serious safety issue. Don't get me wrong, I love one pedal driving and I have it on 95% of the time but when the roads are slick you can and will lose traction unintentionally with one pedal driving on. Sometimes it can be a benign little slip but it leaves the potential for a disaster. Even a benign little slip can be uncomforting at times.

There are other annoyances too, which I won't label as hating, but rather not liking. Such as it being literally IMPOSSIBLE to talk to someone on the phone at service. (must be all done thru messaging) door handles that freeze shut in cold climate and windows that drop open a bit in order for door to open, again that freeze in cold climates.
 

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Ok here goes...lol

…. door handles that freeze shut in cold climate and windows that drop open a bit in order for door to open, again that freeze in cold climates.
Excellent point. 👍

Boy, I can relate to that in other cars I’ve owned….that have had their flush door handles get frozen/iced over. More than once, could not get into my car because I couldn’t open the door handles after a brief period of freezing rain (not even a true ice storm…in which case I know better not to drive). Now, when buying a new car, I make sure any car I buy, that’s going to be driven in cold snowy/rainy/icy conditions, does not have flush handles.
 

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While I agree the drivers display is a very good addition in the Polestar and helps a lot while using navigation I do not think the center screen and UI is easier to use to change things on the fly. I don't agree with them having a better human machine interface either, Tesla is using something we are all used to from our phones and tablets so it is something that you can just get. Hell I've used an iPhone or similar smartphone for 40% of my life so the layout is second nature at this point, the first time I was in a Tesla I could find everything directly.

I am not calling the Polestar way of doing it bad but for the Tesla system you instantly know where every setting will be because it is jut like any phone or tablet UI that you used for ages. They are different but at a similar level of course, I don't think it would have been impossible for them to make an interface that works for a landscape display. As for reaching I had to lean forward more in the Polestar to reach all of the screen since I had to sit further back due to the big center console and the dead pedal being closer to the driver, wouldn't say it matters either way though.

Something I am annoyed at about the Polestar system though is that everything is too big on the screen, they could have fit so much more on the screen and still have it perfectly readable. It would make it look less like a Doro phone then, that is one of my wife's biggest gripes about the infotainment system.
 

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A number of studies have recently showing (no surprise) that moving a driver’s attention away from in front of them, or away from eyes on the road, to the infotainment center towards the lower center of the center console..has become a major design safety issue. While Tesla started this trend by putting their monolithic control center in a lower section of the center console, many automotive companies have since followed suite…so I am glad that Polestar has at least moved some of the information the driver needs, to where it should be, or in front of the driver. Maybe that’s some of Volvo’s emphasis on safety rubbing off on Polestar? Whatever the reason, it’s a move in the right direction - for safety’s sake.
 

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No blind spot warnings in the mirrors. Again, inexcusable. Some people claim they don't use them, that's fine but most people do and to not have them again is just cost cutting, there is no other reason.
As some who drives a TINY Lotus 7 replica(44" to the top of the roll bar) on occasion The blind spot warnings on the mirror give me piece of mind too. It gives me visual confirmation that the driver will know I'm next to their vehicle regardless if they can actually see me or not.
 

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The other thing I'm not a fan of is Elon's "I know what's best for you" philosophy. It's the same reason I prefer the OnePlus over the iPhone...I don't want anyone locking me into an ecosystem I have no control over
That's funny. If Tesla made a car as well as Apple made a phone/computer and tight/secure software, I'd be all over it.

But Tesla takes the Apple philosophy and makes a badly built product. The ostentatious and annoying CEO is icing on the rotten cake.
 
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