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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Verge said:
The automaker is renaming its Tesla connector the “North American Charging Standard” (NACS) and is pitting it against the current CCS combo charging standard. CCS is the agreed-upon standard that every manufacturer selling in North America has adopted for DC fast charging.

 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
This is what I think is really happening (emphasis mine):
The Verge said:
Earlier this year, a White House memo revealed that Tesla Superchargers in the US will start serving non-Tesla EVs by late 2022, but since then, there have been no updates from the company. The Biden administration passed an infrastructure law that aims to help boost EV adoption and grow charging infrastructure, but funding would only go to companies that build charging stations that can accommodate more than one company’s EVs. As it stands, this would disqualify Tesla from receiving these funds unless it can convince at least one other automaker to adopt its plug.
All they need is for some random small-volume manufacturer to take them up on this, and they can try to argue their way into receiving federal funds without adding CCS connectors to all their existing Superchargers.
 

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This is what I think is really happening (emphasis mine):


All they need is for some random small-volume manufacturer to take them up on this, and they can try to argue their way into receiving federal funds without adding CCS connectors to all their existing Superchargers.
Sounds about right
 

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This is what I think is really happening (emphasis mine):


All they need is for some random small-volume manufacturer to take them up on this, and they can try to argue their way into receiving federal funds without adding CCS connectors to all their existing Superchargers.
I believe Aptera has adopted the Tesla charging connection for their vehicles. They are far from being a player in the industry right now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I believe Aptera has adopted the Tesla charging connection for their vehicles. They are far from being a player in the industry right now.
Aptera was exactly the kind of small-volume I had in mind. Maybe lodged in my memory somewhere was that they actually had done this. 😆

It’s so incredibly Tesla to start by renaming this “North American Charging Standard” before getting any signatories larger than Aptera. Truly the “Full Self-Driving” of connector names.
 

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Right so if Tesla essentially uses their market share to brute force their standard moving forward and create a format war to make automakers to fall in line with their standard. We basically have cars with the new CHADEMO.

Seems they are not adding CCS to their charging network, they are bending North American standards to their will by the draw of their giant charging network and we may have the Betamax of early adopters. We'll see how this plays out, but if this is what happens I will dislike Tesla and Elon Musk even more than I already do.
 

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Right so if Tesla essentially uses their market share to brute force their standard moving forward and create a format war to make automakers to fall in line with their standard. We basically have cars with the new CHADEMO.

Seems they are not adding CCS to their charging network, they are bending North American standards to their will by the draw of their giant charging network and we may have the Betamax of early adopters. We'll see how this plays out, but if this is what happens I will dislike Tesla and Elon Musk even more than I already do.
How many Tesla owners are going to freak out when an Etron, P2 , EQS and others are occupying their charger. I expect we may end up paying some hefty rates for access to deter us from just casually strolling in to charge rather than it being an emergency.
 

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How many Tesla owners are going to freak out when an Etron, P2 , EQS and others are occupying their charger. I expect we may end up paying some hefty rates for access to deter us from just casually strolling in to charge rather than it being an emergency.
I dont mind paying a premium for fast and reliable charging on a road trip if it means we can do away with our ICE SUV.
 

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How many Tesla owners are going to freak out when an Etron, P2 , EQS and others are occupying their charger. I expect we may end up paying some hefty rates for access to deter us from just casually strolling in to charge rather than it being an emergency.
yet i see Teslas owners have no issues pulling into an EA station
 
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I have to agree, Tesla's charging plug is vastly superior to CCS. I would be onboard with it becoming the standard.
 

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In what way is it superior? The only thing I can see as positive is the size. But it can't handle future high charging speeds. It is limited to 250kw to my knowledge, 500V and 500A. And it requires extra hardware in the car to switch between AC and DC charging.
I also think I saw some test when it overheats because the small size don't allow for active cooling.
 

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In what way is it superior? The only thing I can see as positive is the size. But it can't handle future high charging speeds. It is limited to 250kw to my knowledge, 500V and 500A. And it requires extra hardware in the car to switch between AC and DC charging.
I also think I saw some test when it overheats because the small size don't allow for active cooling.
The released spec details a backwards (and forwards) compatible 1000V version. Tesla claims they have tested a version up to 900A continuous without liquid cooling and without overheating. I call bullshit on that though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I know very little about Tesla chargers. Would it be at least theoretically possible to have a CCS to Tesla adapter? Like the opposite of the adapter Tesla owners have now?
For the current voltage/amperages, yes it’s theoretically possible. Tesla sells the reverse to allow Tesla vehicles to charge from CCS1 fast chargers today. In the past folks have hacked together adapters to let non-Teslas charge on Superchargers, but Tesla locks those out via their authentication stuff pretty quickly.

If I had to guess, an adapter is not sufficient for Tesla to receive the federal funds they’re after. So rather than retrofit Superchargers they’re going to try this route first.

But there are definitely possible futures in which Tesla sells an adapter for us.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
In what way is it superior? The only thing I can see as positive is the size. But it can't handle future high charging speeds. It is limited to 250kw to my knowledge, 500V and 500A. And it requires extra hardware in the car to switch between AC and DC charging.
I also think I saw some test when it overheats because the small size don't allow for active cooling.
I don’t have experience with CCS2, but I do have experience with CCS1 and Tesla Superchargers. Tesla’s connector is noticeably better than CCS1. The size and weight do make a big difference for trying to get a vehicle connected, especially for folks not on the young side of the age spectrum. I suspect a lot of our fast charge issues are because the connector and cable are so heavy they pull the data pins away, which is why the general recommendation in north america is to hold the cable until the initialization is complete. It’s really dumb unfortunate ramifications of decisions from J1772 a long time ago. Tesla puts the data pins below the bulky pins, not several inches above.

If Tesla had done this many years ago I would’ve been excited about the possibility of it becoming standard. But it’s much too late now, and I’m very suspicious of their motivation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The released spec details a backwards (and forwards) compatible 1000V version. Tesla claims they have tested a version up to 900A continuous without liquid cooling and without overheating. I call bullshit on that though.
It’s easier when they have the shortest possible cable ever 😆

Seriously Electrify America / EVgo and others have much harder problems to solve since vehicles have charge ports all over the place. Tesla got an advantage even in their cabling by controlling that.
 

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Too little too late. Tesla obviously realize that they’ve designed themselves out of federal funds, and as all other manufacturers adopt CCS, their charging network will become a disadvantage rather than an advantage. I like their plug, but the time for this was 5 years ago. Best they can do now is work with standards bodies to influence and ensure compatibility with what’s next.
 

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Having a different connector doesn't solve all the other non-tesla problems with charging. Seems like this is just the physical connectors and every vehicle manufacturer and charging network operator still has to figure out their own communication protocols and software. They would also still be connectors attached to the current array of unreliable charging cabinets.
 
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