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I've just read about the development of solid state batteries for EV's by Toyota and others. Apparently, they should provide 500kms range and re-charge in 10 minutes! ..... Ouch! 馃
 

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I've just read about the development of solid state batteries for EV's by Toyota and others. Apparently, they should provide 500kms range and re-charge in 10 minutes! ..... Ouch! 馃
It鈥檚 only a matter of time and the reason I only went for a 3yr lease on mine.. dyson were developing an EV and shelved it because the solid state battery they were planning to use took too long to develop.. over the next few yrs, battery tech and charging tech is going to leap forward.
 

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Remember that needs a charging infrastructure that can support that rate of charging! Solid state batteries will start to come on stream in about 3-5 years and should be quite impressive... Frankly it's probably the only thing that will save Toyota now.
 

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The Toyota CEO also just went on an antiEV rant. Along with the challenges of scaling up production, distribution, etc of these batteries, with the leadership not being on board I don鈥檛 expect Toyota to have these going in a car on a dealers lot here until 2025ish at the earliest.
 

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Agreed. The only reason they have an EV at all is because the Chinese market insisted on it if they wanted to do manufacturing there. It pains me to see a once great manufacturer grinding its way to oblivion, having once been one of the creators of automotive electrification. What's worst of all is they simply can't see it coming; it's like watching the British car industry in the 1970s laughing at first the Japanese, then in the 1990s the Koreans, too stupid to realise they are about to be eaten alive.
 

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I think they were pinning their hopes on hydrogen fuel cells taking off.. They've released their second iteration of the Merai fuel cell car but ultimately, unless you live in California, London or Norway, it's not going to sell to the masses (yet).
 

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... and never will. Hydrogen is a daft, ridiculous idea for a car due to having to distribute something under enormous pressure that takes enormous energy to produce. It could work very well for trains or something similar that has lots of storage capacity and continuous energy requirements rather than lots of stop/start.
 

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... and never will. Hydrogen is a daft, ridiculous idea for a car due to having to distribute something under enormous pressure that takes enormous energy to produce. It could work very well for trains or something similar that has lots of storage capacity and continuous energy requirements rather than lots of stop/start.
Agreed. Trains, perhaps but a while off. Long distance road haulage, almost certainly commercially available within a few years. Green hydrogen production and distribution is a way off though.

Totally bonkers for passenger vehicles. Battery electric is ready today and already suits the needs for almost all drivers. Biggest hurdle to mass adoption today is initial price and charging for those without off street parking.
 

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... and never will. Hydrogen is a daft, ridiculous idea for a car due to having to distribute something under enormous pressure that takes enormous energy to produce. It could work very well for trains or something similar that has lots of storage capacity and continuous energy requirements rather than lots of stop/start.
I worked for a hydrogen fuel cell company for 3+ years. It is viable for cars and the hydrogen can be produced cleanly (just like our grid still uses non-renewable sources) - it's just not quite there yet and the problem of refuelling infrastructure is even worse. Of course, things like solid state batteries that can fully charge in 10-15 minutes probably makes them less viable/worth pursuing.
 

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The whole point is to stop burning stuff and to stop having huge heavy tankers pounding round the roads delivering something physical. That's why electricity is the only way forward for mass individual transport like cars. It only works where you can have a larger scale refueling depot such as a bus station or train terminus.
 

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The whole point is to stop burning stuff and to stop having huge heavy tankers pounding round the roads delivering something physical. That's why electricity is the only way forward for mass individual transport like cars. It only works where you can have a larger scale refueling depot such as a bus station or train terminus.
Hydrogen fuel cells don't burn anything. The only emissions are water. You get the hydrogen either as a byproduct of some industrial chemical processes, or by electrolysing water (e.g. hopefully from renewables). The electrolysis can be localised to generate hydrogen on-site.

If you think of the hydrogen fuel like a battery (storage). You can use it in a fuel cell to generate electricity or use excess grid power to generate hydrogen. It's another way of helping to balance out the grid.

Oh - they're also investigating ways of generating hydrogen using algae.
 

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Personally, I think there needs to be a good reason to use a technology which is only ~20%(?) as efficient as pure electricity and requires a lot of extra effort for production, transportation, storage and even refueling. I would see a use case for Hydrogen in cases where you need to replace fossile fuels but can't switch to electric power (either through the grid or stored in batteries) for some reason, e.g. steel milling, ships, long range aircraft, etc.
 

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Yeah sure, that's why I agree they're not that viable now. But in 20-30 years (the timeframes for fuel cells)? I think it's possible.
 

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The development of batteries will also progress in the next 20-30yrs, so I would expect the use case for Hydrogen to shift more and more towards endurance and burning.
 

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This is a very interesting summary of Hydrogen, which it seems could have a large role to play in Britain's "green industrial revolution".
2516
 

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Aren't fuel cell engines similar to ICE engines ? If so, you still have all the complexity of those engines. The simplicity of an electric motor is a big advantage.
 

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Aren't fuel cell engines similar to ICE engines ? If so, you still have all the complexity of those engines. The simplicity of an electric motor is a big advantage.
No not really, they are solid-state (passing hydrogen & air over a catalyst to produce electricity). The only moving parts required are fans/solenoids/pumps for controlling the gas/air/coolant flow.
 
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