Hi Trevor

Outstanding effort there, and brilliant documentation!

Steve

 

Impressive work!

Seeing the details on the HK system I am even more surprised that many people (including myself) perceive the system as sub par.

 

Great writeup.

From what I can tell (a non-expert) it looks to me like the amp is under-powered, the distortion rating is pretty high, and the speakers are unimpressive.

 

You have just described almost all OEM audio systems

 

No doubt. But it also makes clear that the Polestar system is all marketing.

 

How can you reconcile that with the fact that I and others think it's amongst the best factory fit in car audio they've ever heard?

 

Seems like I'm in the minority but I'm not an audiophile, I I feel that it's quite good actually.

 

I am a longtime audiophile. There was a time that I had over 100k "invested" in equipment. Tastes are primarily jazz and classical oriented.

There is no car stereo, ever made, that can compete with a good/top home audio system. There are many reasons for this, but #1 is that a car's acoustic profile is rubbish. Then, of course, there's the road noise. Most "high end audio systems try to overcome the poor acoustic environment of a car, by providing more power. That is, "quantity", not "quality".

All this said, I believe that the system in the p2 is one of the best car audio systems I have heard. ...so, I would have to agree with you.Does it offer all the spacial acoustic adjustments found in you home TV surround sound system? No. But any good, true audiophile system is meant only to replicate the source, as if you were hearing it at a concert hall, or studio...from the artists, themselves.

 

This is great stuff, Trevor. I’m not yet ready to upgrade, but it’s definitely in my future, and this is just a fantastic resource.

As someone who has sold high-end home audio equipment for many years, I will make one comment to dispel a notion many people have, that being that upgrading an amplifier is purely for the purposes of increasing maximum volume. In fact, as I’m sure you know, Trevor, the true purpose is so that the amplifier will never come close to “clipping”, i.e. running into distortion problems even at lower volumes. Upgrading electronics is that much more important even than upgrading speakers — or, at least, there is little purpose in upgrading speakers without making sure you have matching upgrades to your amplification.

May I ask, just for the equipment itself, what the rough cost was?

 

the true purpose is so that the amplifier will never come close to “clipping”, i.e. running into distortion problems even at lower volumes.

Absolutely! Clipping can destroy your speakers. And also being "stable" and with low distortion at all volumes.

 

Sub-par is ambiguous so I suppose the question is: Do you consider it worse than other OEM car audio systems, or worse than you expected it to be?

Also, I'd like to echo the sentiment that this is some outstanding work TrevorC. Great info and really nicely laid out too.

 

Sub-par is ambiguous so I suppose the question is: Do you consider it worse than other OEM car audio systems, or worse than you expected it to be?

One can debate whether it's the best.....but "worse" than other OEM car audio systems - Not a chance. There are a number of reviews, like this one, that consider it one of the "better" OEM systems out there.

Polestar 2 audio review: A phenomenal Harman Kardon system - TotallyEV

The Polestar 2 houses a 13-speaker Harman Kardon audio system. Find out how it performs by reading TotallyEV's detailed review.

totallyev.net

While there are things that Polestar needs to improve on, having a better audio system isn't one of them.

 

I think it's a bit condescending to assign positive opinions to good marketing. I'm sure plenty of people who rate it have a good ear for quality.

 

I'm sure plenty of people who rate it have a good ear for quality.

The opposite has also been posted all over this forum.

As for marketing, while that's not my specific specialty, I know a whole bunch of experts that would vehemently disagree with you. Particularly for things that are hard to quantify, marketing has a huge effect on what we think is good looking, luxury, etc. How do you think they sell so many Lexus cars with that huge gawk for a grill, or BMWs with buck teeth? Read any car's marketing material and they will make you believe some basic piece of standard equipment is the best thing since sliced bread. Take one look at women's fashion. It's all marketing. We are so highly bathed in it every day with every type of product that we barely recognize it anymore. You have to have a jaundiced eye to see through any of it.

 

@TrevorC after all that effort, what do you like listening to?

 

My initial intent with this thread was to share my knowledge of the HK system. I don't think that there will ever be agreement on what sounds good and bad. Everyone has their own take on it. In reality my hearing is quite poor (Mostly a hereditary thing that hit me earlier than most of my family), anything above 4kHz and my hearing falls off quite quickly. I have not heard crickets for a good decade, however this doesn't mean that I don't appreciate quality.

To answer two questions that were put to me.
The components in the my system have cost about £2500. (@stevelup , if we meet up at the weekend, probably best not mention that to my wife)
My music taste, well that's questionable. Dance, R&B and things with a heavy baseline. My wife's music taste, Rush, Genesis, Led Zeppelin and Folk. Her music justifies my effort's, my music not so much.

 

Polestar said:
The audio system is precalibrated using digital signal processing. This calibration takes into account speakers, amplifiers, passenger compartment acoustics, listener location, etc. There is also a dynamic calibration that takes into account the volume control's position and the vehicle's speed.

This is a great example of good marketing. I have no doubt they did what they say they did, but this could have been something that was done in about 30 minutes with minimal equipment, even though it sounds like an elaborate procedure. As for the speed calibration, that hasn't worked in a long time.

 

JRRF - Normally I find your posts to be pretty well reasoned, but in this case, you seem to think that those of us that like the HK system, are NOT basing our opinions on actual comparative analysis of the system in question....but instead, have been swayed by marketing hoopla. As mentioned by the MOD, that's rather insulting....and especially to those of us that have spent decades honing our audiophile tradecraft.

In my case, at least, to suggest that I have been swayed by marketing hype, is rubbish. To this day, I have not seen nor heard of any Polestar marketing material on this subject. In fact, I never even looked at any of the independent reviews on this topic until I saw a few posts to contrary, saying the HK system is horrible. As I pointed out, some of these posters had no clue what they were talking about, when they blamed the HK for poor quality, when in fact, they were listening to highly compress material.

One reason why I formulate my own opinions on anything subjective. Forums can be useful, but mostly, full of misinformation and/ or erroneous opinions. Same can be said from any non-factual information coming from a manufacturer.

 

JRRF - Normally I find your posts to be pretty well reasoned, but in this case, you seem to think that those of us that like the HK system, are NOT basing our opinions on actual comparative analysis of the system in question. Instead, have been swayed by marketing. As mentioned by the MOD, that's rather insulting....and especially to those of us that have spent decades honing our audiophile tradecraft.

No insult intended. I have no doubt about your experiences, or professional opinions. My arguments were definitely generalized in nature, and the marketing material can still be hyperbole without impacting that at all.

I considered myself an amateur audiophile going back 40+ years, and although my ears have gotten worse, and I spend a lot less time listening to music on my reference system, I'm just not that impressed with the HK system. I've had previous cars where I wanted to sit in the car and keep listening even when I pulled in the garage. That just doesn't happen with this car. Might just be old age 🤷‍♂️

 

I don't have my Polestar yet, but looking forward to how it sounds. I went from a custom Focal system in a Galaxy to the HK in a BMW i3, which was genuinely dreadful. So much so that Radio 4 became the default. Focal oem replacement drivers went in a few months ago and immediately started listening to music again.

Trevor, cheers for the incredible detail. As I'm having a lease, anything you'd suggest that could be done simply and then removed in 3 years? Would have to be Focal as I work for the group (and doubt they'd have seen a Polestar)

 

My gf drives a 3-series (F31) touring, and I would disagree. Granted, I am usually in the passenger side...and the acoustics are a bit different from a saloon....but still.

 

are the Volvo speakers actually HK rebadged or are they something Volvo "designed".
I was impressed with the sound in my rental. Though I thought the HK in my '02 9.5 was more even.

OBTW, the entire reason that Samsmug bought Harmon International was for the consumer auto division.

 

I would doubt Volvo designed them. Although the vast majority of automobile speakers are low grade, no matter the brand on the grill cover.

 

I'd think you're right. It's a wonder how many people listen at levels just way to loud for comfort and/or the efficiency of the auto stereo in general.
Over 85db and most systems run out of HP.
I do like the concept of the digital MOST buss.

 

I am currently in a rental with the HK system and am not impressed so far. I can't get much in the low sub range. My previous MS with high fidelity sound had very powerful sub bass, no vibrating of car parts but a good push that you could feel. My co-workers knew when I was getting close to the office, depending on what I was listening too. Breathing Underwater from Santana's Blessings and Miracles album has two sections of the song that are very low and slow, my MS is the only car so far that has been able to reproduce the lows correctly. The high frequencies seem muted down and not clear and crisp. I have tried changing the equalizer several times but maybe I am just missing something.

 

perhaps, it is a rental, the sub is blown.
or the software needs a reboot.

Dunno those Santana cuts, but Heart Magic Man sounded good in our rental. As did Love Supreme & Miles' Sketches. Trip hop like Tricky, Morcheeba had plenty of bottom.
Now, it din't sound like my JBL 6328, that'd be asking alot.

I did find overall, like most auto systems I've heard, it needed a midrange dip 'tween 400 & 3Khz.
Otherwise my nuts vibrated when Beck solo'd. The real Beck.

Now some folks like the bottom to feel like Alex Van Halens drum throne did in the 80's.
He sat upon a 12" Panasonic woofer with some wattage attached.
No Little Miss Muffets' tuffet.
If you ever wondered, why did Alex only have one kid?

 

All this arguing between people claiming it's rubbish and others saying it's one of the best OEM systems they've heard.

Peoples opinion of what is great is heavily influenced by their expectation, most people's expectation of a car system is pretty low, sometimes because they are used to vastly superior home setups and never heard an amazing aftermarket car system (i'm not claiming a car system will ever sound as good) and sometimes because they've never heard any good system home or car i.e they've only been exposed to the usual mass market rubbish.

If all you've ever heard is good to even great OEM systems than the Polestar system probably does sound great even if you have $100k home setups or sell home equipment. That's because when you get in a car your level of expectation is vastly lower because the typical experience is trash in a car so when you do hear something like the PS HK system which is a step above the average it sounds really good, that doesn't mean that there isn't vastly superior systems out there.

It's like someone who sees lots of movies at the theatre but only uses the internal speakers on their TV and then they go buy a decent soundbar and "OMG it sounds amazing how could anyone say this sounds rubbish it's amazing, clearly anyone who says this isn't good is an idiot, I watch movies at the theatre all the time and yeah it's not as good as that but listen to it it's amazing".

Do you see what i'm getting at?

A great OEM system will be easily trounced by a good aftermarket system that has been designed for quality and not just volume. A great aftermarket system will absolutely blow away a great OEM system. You are talking vastly different levels of equipment quality.

But at the end of the day if you think it sounds great that is all that matters, but don't get annoyed and argumentative when someone comes along with the same car and says they don't agree. Their expectation and experience may be vastly different to yours, it does not make them wrong and it doesn't make you wrong either you just have different expectations.

 

In all of my cars I have upgraded the audio system and the Polestar 2 is no exception.
I have written it all up here:-
www.loopybunny.co.uk/polestar

Great write up Trevor.

One question I had is what glue did you use to attach the sub box frame to the chassis/body?

Also how did you attach the top panel to the sub box frame is it glued and screwed or just screwed with a seal? I'd prefer the idea of using a seal and screws/bolts so the majority of the assembly can be removed in the future.

 

Great work! I have been recently researching upgrades as well and having read some other Volvo forums (this is my first Volvo product ever). It seems that the common upgrade path for the newer Volvo cars is to replace the HK components with the premium Bowers and Wilkins components. It looks like many of the B&W components are plug and play with the Polestar 2. The ones that have identical wiring plugs and mounting holes are the front mid-ranges, rear mid-ranges, rear tweeters, and hatch-area full-ranges.

Regarding the B&W amp, I haven't been able to look into if any would match up with our speaker configurations, especially the front air woofer. But I did find using OrBit that there is a configuration setting (028 - RADIO, AMP AND SPEAKER SYSTEM) for a Premium Audio amp profile and it is different than the HK amp profile (performance audio plus). I tested both profiles with the same song, volume and EQ settings and found that the Premium profile was notably louder (20-30%) between 200 and 1500 Hz. Since B&W option was never offered, I am not sure what this profile is intended for, but I am going to start playing with the EQ a bit while I can source some B&W speakers. A piggy-back DSP amp is still a possibility depending on how these other pieces work out.

This is probably also of interest to XC40 owners as well.

If anyone is interested, these are the Volvo P/Ns for the B&W speakers:
31456249 - front mid-range
31350430 - rear tweeter
32246255 - rear mid-range (scratch that, we didn't even get the 170mm HK speakers, 150mm instead)

 

So how did this turn out? Do we have members who went the B&W route?

 

I'm old enough to remember when having a high end car audio system simply meant having more than 1 or 2 speakers.

 

When my dad got a car with a 4 speaker FM stereo, that was the best music we had. Sometimes I would take his keys and just sit in the car listening to the radio. 🙂

 

The source makes a huge difference too. SiriusXM in the USA has horrendous quality, Spotify is better but I'm far from blown away with the quality of the audio system

 

spotify is basically horrible in this car, please listen to tidal! Its wonderful!
the 2.7 update destroyed the h/k sound for me, and had to pull down all the higher frequencies to be able to listen to it and that destroyed the soundscape and depth even more.
I had it on surround until then, sure it messes with the sound but I just loved it, big part of why we bought the car. Well 2.7 killed that part ( along with the fun in driving it ) and I have not taken my time to try and find good settings until a couple of weeks ago.
But I found it!
So now I love it again!
I really enjoy it again now, still miss the really special sound/feeling the old surround gave you, but its better now compared to my b&w setup at home.
There are songs that I would rather listen to in the car then at home, but its two different sort of soundscapes so cant really compare.
Biggest difference is the surround is off now, and that gives it MORE surround/stereo effect funny enough, but I knew that, I had it on surround BECAUSE of the sort of mono/live/on stage effect it gave.

But first step if you dont like the sound in this car: TIDAL!
Then make sure its a track in MASTER for the full experience!

 

You can go to a Harman certificate car seller they know how to fix as you tell from Harman Pro, just be honest with them ,they know what to do .