Eh, that's about what I expected; when I had the OEM towing hitch installed on my XC70, the dealer made sure I understood that this involved cutting a hole in the bumper cover. It's been fine.
I officially pulled the plug yesterday and called Alane/Mike to get my deposit refunded. Last Saturday, Jeff from the Polestar Space in Manhattan contacted me and we started to go over the financing details. The lease terms appeared extremely expensive and the numbers didn’t add up. I asked him to email me the specifics, which he did, and then I replied back with a list of questions and request for clarifications. He never responded back, so on Wednesday I went ahead with the 2021 Volvo V60 T8 Polestar Engineered lease that I had as a back-up option. I’m sure I would have loved the P*2, but the continuous lack of communication and inability to articulate even the basics of the financials were more than I could stomach when handing over $72k for an automobile. But don’t shed a tear for me. I think I’ll be fine for the next 24 months.
View attachment 2014
I agree completely, I respect the dedication from the folks willing to continue to wait. I work too hard to give my $$$ to a company who so badly communicates; doesn’t matter if the car is “worth it” or not. At the end of the day Polestar is really bad at this roll out, I can’t pretend otherwise.
I agree completely, I respect the dedication from the folks willing to continue to wait. I work too hard to give me $$$ to a company who so badly communicates; doesn’t matter if the car is “worth it” or not. At the end of the day Polestar is really bad at this roll out, I can’t pretend otherwise.
I agree completely, I respect the dedication from the folks willing to continue to wait. I work too hard to give me $$$ to a company who so badly communicates; doesn’t matter if the car is “worth it” or not. At the end of the day Polestar is really bad at this roll out, I can’t pretend otherwise.
It also was a simple financial decision. The Polestar Space in Manhattan quoted me $1,231.37/month on a 24-month, 15k miles per year lease with $5,498.62 down payment incl all fees and taxes. This was on a $71,700 MSRP P*2 with quoted lease residual of 65%. The V60 T8 Polestar payment is $790/month on a 24-month, 15k miles per year lease with $4,800 down payment incl all fees and taxes. This was on a $68,940 MSRP V60 T8 Polestar with a lease residual of 66%. At the end of two years, I'll be spending ~$24k for the Volvo all in. Polestar wanted ~$35k for same terms. As much as I think I would have liked the Polestar 2, I don't think I'd like it nearly 50% more than the V60 T8 Polestar (which, by the way, goes like stink!) #4.3secondsto60.
My msrp is above this imaginary ceiling and I saw no residual shenanigans. They can do whatever they want to make as much profit as possible but that doesn't make it a real financial element. It's a gimmick. When you lease a 100k MB or even a 300k RR there is no financial concept that reduces the residual on part of the asset. It's simply unheard of. The asset depreciates as a whole.
So you have a residual of 64% (10K/yr 36 mo) with an MSRP higher than the $64K range? I don't have any details, just comments from a phone call with my PS Space person. You have in another post that they already have your money so when did you get details?
So you have a residual of 64% (10K/yr 36 mo) with an MSRP higher than the $64K range? I don't have any details, just comments from a phone call with my PS Space person. You have in another post that they already have your money so when did you get details?
So you have a residual of 64% (10K/yr 36 mo) with an MSRP higher than the $64K range? I don't have any details, just comments from a phone call with my PS Space person. You have in another post that they already have your money so when did you get details?
I've had many contacts with the delivery folks about this over the last couple of months. They gave me the numbers and I plugged them in to verify. It's all perfectly normal. If you've ever seen a lease contract there is no place for various different parts of the asset or variable/maximum residuals. It's really economics 101. Over a period of time an asset has a beginning value and an ending value. Those two numbers determine the amount of depreciation.
I've had many contacts with the delivery folks about this over the last couple of months. They gave me the numbers and I plugged them in to verify. It's all perfectly normal. If you've ever seen a lease contract there is no place for various different parts of the asset or variable/maximum residuals. It's really economics 101. Over a period of time an asset has a beginning value and an ending value. Those two numbers determine the amount of depreciation.
So how do you explain the very high residual with same money factor/interest of "mhochCA" screenshot and the big difference (not linear at all) for a fully loaded PS2? I ordered a fully loaded one and get a huge difference on the calculator and when the PS Space rep explained it with the different residuals cut-offs, it does make the math work. It just means the normal residual value of the PS2 is quite low making the lease very expensive. It also implies PS is willing to share a portion of the federal tax credit they are getting. I'm still waiting for my actual lease details so hope to have a screenshot to show the details soon, but it's bothersome.
When I spoke to the PS Space rep and asked if I could change my config to avoid the high premium for going over the threshold for a decent residual, I was informed I would have to move my deposit to a new order and get in the back of the line so to speak. Since my order shows delivery in September 2020 (still today at the time of this post, my order shows September 2020 delivery), I asked what's the real date that I can count on and he said about 1 year would be a certain date as the website estimate is creating a lot of upset customers that will not get their vehicles anywhere near that time and he didn't want me to experience what I've been seeing and still seeing on the website versus what he is seeing in deliveries. I don't mind waiting as the bugs and updates could use this time to improve the car and get features designed and marketed that aren't quite there. What I don't know is the real cost and supposedly will get details on that soon.
I never test drive the eTron but assumed it wasn’t a materially better car than the Polestar except for possibly a bit nicer interior. What am I missing in my analysis? Audi does great interiors but I like the Polestar weave tech and checked out the Audi eTron forum and they don’t lack issues despite their head start on us.
The etron is experiencing such massive depreciation that I doubt anybody will buy out the car at the end of the lease. The reason why new etron's now are less than PS2's despite $85K MSRPs is the huge price support Audi is putting into this vehicle. You should look at the used car sites and the forums to see how many people are upset at what is the fastest depreciating Audi in my lifetime. It's pretty scary, but the etron is also having a hard time competing on key metrics against most competitors. It supposedly has fit and finish well above most others, but the electronics are horrible and key features don't work and the range for battery are often cited factors. With that said, you can get a lease for the etron prestige plus at a rate close to a moderately built up PS2 (e.g. PS2 with a color option and the performance package). I'm a huge fan of Audi overall and had thought about the etron sportback until I started seeing all the problems with their tech and features (some videos claim build quality issues, but I'm not sure those are legit). I think of the EV industry as Audi, Jag, Polestar are quality car makers trying to get the tech right and improving over time while Tesla has the tech right and is trying to make quality cars. All are improving for sure, but all have their issues too so spend some time to see what is the right trade-off before you buy/lease.
The etron is experiencing such massive depreciation that I doubt anybody will buy out the car at the end of the lease. The reason why new etron's now are less than PS2's despite $85K MSRPs is the huge price support Audi is putting into this vehicle. You should look at the used car sites and the forums to see how many people are upset at what is the fastest depreciating Audi in my lifetime. It's pretty scary, but the etron is also having a hard time competing on key metrics against most competitors. It supposedly has fit and finish well above most others, but the electronics are horrible and key features don't work and the range for battery are often cited factors. With that said, you can get a lease for the etron prestige plus at a rate close to a moderately built up PS2 (e.g. PS2 with a color option and the performance package). I'm a huge fan of Audi overall and had thought about the etron sportback until I started seeing all the problems with their tech and features (some videos claim build quality issues, but I'm not sure those are legit). I think of the EV industry as Audi, Jag, Polestar are quality car makers trying to get the tech right and improving over time while Tesla has the tech right and is trying to make quality cars. All are improving for sure, but all have their issues too so spend some time to see what is the right trade-off before you buy/lease.
I think with pretty much any EV right now, you should either lease or plan not to sell it, things are changing so quickly it’s no wonder the value drops.
The Model S and Model X have more “normal” three year values comparable to ICE in the 60% range. People know what they are and are familiar with them. I know the Model 3 supposedly keeps 90% of its value after three years, which seems insane, either it can’t be right or it has something to do with scarcity of cheap long range BEVs, whatever it is I’m sure it’s temporary as the lower priced competitors ramp up.
I’m about a month in on my e-tron, and I guess they’ve worked out the kinks because I haven’t experienced anything off yet. App works, I’ve used the charging and HVAC schedules and other remote commands. If I’m picky I’d mention that the UI is not super intuitive, and I’ve had audio on the wireless CarPlay cut out for a second once or twice.
If the e-tron is being propped up by Audi, I think it’s in the residual. I haven’t heard of any discounts that are out of line with what I’ve seen on other cars over the years - MSRP discounts between 5-10% are not that uncommon. What really makes it killer is the $7500 tax credit on top of that, so you end up closer to 20% off MSRP. Then the OK but perhaps not realistic 52% residual seals the deal.
Compared to Tesla and Polestar’s model of “it costs what it costs”, it’s really hard to compare a vehicle sold through an old school dealer to these just based on sticker.
It's good to hear your e-tron is glitch free for the most part.
My configured PS2 is about 50% more on monthly payment for similar starting money on a 36 month 10K mi/year lease as an Audi e-Tron Sportback with about a $5K higher MSRP ($78K). Just looking at pure cash over 36 months with no intention of buying either, the e-tron Sportback is an attractive offer if it's working well.
I just checked AutoTrader and it looks like going rate for used 2019 model e-trons (~2 years old now) are $50-55k depending on trim. Factoring in the $7.5k federal incentive, and original MSRP of ~$80-85k this rate of depreciation seems about expected? It certainly isn't "massive" to me...?
I think of the EV industry as Audi, Jag, Polestar are quality car makers trying to get the tech right and improving over time while Tesla has the tech right and is trying to make quality cars. All are improving for sure, but all have their issues too so spend some time to see what is the right trade-off before you buy/lease.
My configured PS2 is about 50% more on monthly payment for similar starting money on a 36 month 10K mi/year lease as an Audi e-Tron Sportback with about a $5K higher MSRP ($78K). Just looking at pure cash over 36 months with no intention of buying either, the e-tron Sportback is an attractive offer if it's working well.
I think, plainly, Polestar will need to get their US lease pricing to be more competitive. At the end of the day, the P*2 lease is at or above a nominally more expensive e-tron sportback.
I fear a lot of folks are going to see the plain $ difference and vote with their wallet accordingly.
I think, plainly, Polestar will need to get their US lease pricing to be more competitive. At the end of the day, the P*2 lease is at or above a nominally more expensive e-tron sportback.
I haven’t fully thought through the economics of all of this, but I wonder if at least some of this isn’t due to the current US tariffs on goods from China. The minute those are ended, the MSRP (and value of existing units in the market) could fall considerably overnight. If the price of the car is somewhat artificially inflated to begin with (vs. a comparable product manufactured elsewhere), and the initial owner is the one taking the hit, these cars stand to risk higher depreciation as a result of policy rather than product consideration.
I just checked AutoTrader and it looks like going rate for used 2019 model e-trons (~2 years old now) are $50-55k depending on trim. Factoring in the $7.5k federal incentive, and original MSRP of ~$80-85k this rate of depreciation seems about expected? It certainly isn't "massive" to me...?
That's a great summary
I think, plainly, Polestar will need to get their US lease pricing to be more competitive. At the end of the day, the P*2 lease is at or above a nominally more expensive e-tron sportback.
I fear a lot of folks are going to see the plain $ difference and vote with their wallet accordingly.
The carmax carvana autotrader prices are probably where the market is selling them. It's the posts from owners who go back to the very dealers they bought the cars for $85K plus the $2,500 in fees/prep that are getting the $40K buy back prices that are going crazy and posting (as they probably should). I don't think there is an easy answer as any dealer selling at $50-55K has to buy it for less than that to clean/prep/finance it awaiting a sale. That spread of 20% seems about normal to slightly above normal, but given the depreciation and competition (including from themselves), it doesn't seem that out of line. For the PS2, I do think the leasing needs to be more competitive with others. As described, it's pretty expensive. I'm still waiting for details on the lease and the PS place folks say it will be coming soon.
The carmax carvana autotrader prices are probably where the market is selling them. It's the posts from owners who go back to the very dealers they bought the cars for $85K plus the $2,500 in fees/prep that are getting the $40K buy back prices that are going crazy and posting (as they probably should). I don't think there is an easy answer as any dealer selling at $50-55K has to buy it for less than that to clean/prep/finance it awaiting a sale. That spread of 20% seems about normal to slightly above normal, but given the depreciation and competition (including from themselves), it doesn't seem that out of line. For the PS2, I do think the leasing needs to be more competitive with others. As described, it's pretty expensive. I'm still waiting for details on the lease and the PS place folks say it will be coming soon.
If you live in San Mateo County and purchase your first EV, Peninsula Clean Energy will offer you a $700 rebate for new plug-in hybrid electric vehicles or a
If you live in San Mateo County and purchase your first EV, Peninsula Clean Energy will offer you a $700 rebate for new plug-in hybrid electric vehicles or a
I’m aware of this one, PCE has been pushing it all summer. Requires a new EV that has an MSRP under $45k, so even my Model 3 doesn’t count.
While the Polestar web site cannot seem to agree exactly what price my car will cost me, on good days, the Polestar web site says my P*2 is $56k, but that still wouldn’t count.
Congratulations, your Polestar 2 has arrived at Polestar Manhattan! You can now choose between pick-up or delivery of your Polestar 2, and your preferred date and time. Polestar Manhattan will then reach out to confirm your details.
But.... the link just takes me to the page with the 5 steps still stuck on Credit Application. Although this is the first time I've seen it list my lease's monthly payment at $932. That's the highest yet.
I'd be excited except I'm experienced in Polestar lingo. "Now" tends to mean "sometime, possibly, indefinitely in the future"
But.... the link just takes me to the page with the 5 steps still stuck on Credit Application. Although this is the first time I've seen it list my lease's monthly payment at $932. That's the highest yet.
I'd be excited except I'm experienced in Polestar lingo. "Now" tends to mean "sometime, possibly, indefinitely in the future"
OK, an honest-to-god progress report from Colorado: My car is at the Marin Space after spending who knows how many months at the port. Still a few steps before delivery: (1) Software update and other prep, (2) out-of-state registration (requires fed-exing docs back-and-forth from CA to CO), and then (3) putting it on a truck. It's possible that it will be on the truck as soon as next week.
David said that my car is likely the first one to be shipped east of California! Very exciting!!!!
1,361 - 1,380 of 2,078 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.