[Knucklehead]

Yes I had that experience where it delayed my focusing by a 1/2 second (more?) and was very noticeable. I loved the wider view but the effect on my eyes was very hard to deal with. The issue is with a screen you are focusing using your near vision and it is mono to stereo. With a real mirror you are focusing in the distance and in stereo—which is the same as focusing on the stuff your looking at thru the front window.

Couple that with how less flexible your lenses are as you age makes it hard on the eyes. That and your eyes muscle memory is completely screwed up.

It ends up being a real issue as your eyes are often darting looking forward and then glancing at the rear view mirror.

 

[polerad]

Yes I had that experience where it delayed my focusing by a 1/2 second (more?) and was very noticeable. I loved the wider view but the effect on my eyes was very hard to deal with. The issue is with a screen you are focusing using your near vision and it is mono to stereo. With a real mirror you are focusing in the distance and in stereo—which is the same as focusing on the stuff your looking at thru the front window.

Couple that with how less flexible your lenses are as you age makes it hard on the eyes. That and your eyes muscle memory is completely screwed up.

It ends up being a real issue as your eyes are often darting looking forward and then glancing at the rear view mirror.

Seems use of one of these will intrinsically force a form of eye exercise - maybe can help stave off some of the effects of aging then!! (half joking...)

I suspect @Eyeballs might have a thing to say here

 

[16208]

I thought I read somewhere that by removing the window, they were able to improve the structural strength of the cabin, and increase interior volume and passenger room.
It might be the other way around in that, by the time they got the volume and strength to where they wanted, the window was too small to be useful, and then took the next step and eliminated it.
Personally, the rear view out of my PS2 is as close to useless as any car I've ever actually driven. I just don't use it. I am very interested to "see" what the camera can do to improve that.

I was wondering about the curious seam in the sheet metal on the rear hatchback and the reason or purpose of it, if there is any. So thinking what if the P4 had a rear window and that middle panel becomes glass, I did a quick photoshop to illustrate this. I'm not sure if I like it or not:

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I was wondering about the curious seam in the sheet metal on the rear hatchback and the reason or purpose of it, if there is any. So thinking what if the P4 had a rear window and that middle panel becomes glass, I did a quick photoshop to illustrate this. I'm not sure if I like it or not:

View attachment 23661
View attachment 23662
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I got used to the rear view on my PS2 very quickly. If, and this is a big if, the rear facing camera gives better view, and is the real size as compared to the current mirror, and i see more of the road, eliminating the blind spot, I am all for it!

 

[LeStar]

Anyone can test how it is to refocus eye every time you look in the mirror. Instead of looking at the mirror look at the rim etc. and you will notice it takes some time to refocus.
This is tiresome for the eye and maybe not much when you are young but more and more the older you get.

That and the lack of depth perception are common complaints about using a screen instead of mirror.

But the cutout and that they showed the expensive rear view mirror that can switch between mirror and screen make me believe that they will have a window on the P4.

 

[Eyeballs]

Anyone can test how it is to refocus eye every time you look in the mirror. Instead of looking at the mirror look at the rim etc. and you will notice it takes some time to refocus.
This is tiresome for the eye and maybe not much when you are young but more and more the older you get.

That and the lack of depth perception are common complaints about using a screen instead of mirror.

But the cutout and that they showed the expensive rear view mirror that can switch between mirror and screen make me believe that they will have a window on the P4.

There won’t be a window on the P4 because it’s be too low down for you to be able to see through it if they did, since they’ve moved the horizontal bar above the rear passengers to behind them instead.

Focussing on the screen is clearly an issue as you get older. I’d say the biggest issue will be 50 to 60 year-olds that still have some ability to focus but not quite enough. Before that age and you can still focus at that 60cm distance. After that and you can’t focus at all anyway, so it’ll just be blurry. But in between you might try to focus, not quite get it clear, but then also be a bit slow refocusing to distance. But really no worse than if you’re that age and don’t wear multifocals when driving (looking at the dashboard is a similar distance).

So now we have some exclusions for P4 buyers:

• dog owners
• people 50 to 60 years old
• people that hate Google or love Elon Musk

 

[polerad]

There won’t be a window on the P4 because it’s be too low down for you to be able to see through it if they did, since they’ve moved the horizontal bar above the rear passengers to behind them instead.

Focussing on the screen is clearly an issue as you get older. I’d say the biggest issue will be 50 to 60 year-olds that still have some ability to focus but not quite enough. Before that age and you can still focus at that 60cm distance. After that and you can’t focus at all anyway, so it’ll just be blurry. But in between you might try to focus, not quite get it clear, but then also be a bit slow refocusing to distance. But really no worse than if you’re that age and don’t wear multifocals when driving (looking at the dashboard is a similar distance).

So now we have some exclusions for P4 buyers:

• dog owners
• people 50 to 60 years old
• people that hate Google or love Elon Musk

So for all the folks in that age range, how do they use the P2, whose rear view is basically useless, when reversing out? I use the rear view cam and the side mirrors routinely for that purpose and that involves shifting focus sequentially between my side mirrors and the tablet screen view. I don’t perceive a significant issue with that process though I’m not in that age range.
On the road I do quick glances at the rear view mirror to see if there’s a car tailgating me occasionally but still mainly use the side mirrors for lane changes.

 

[Knucklehead]

So for all the folks in that age range, how do they use the P2, whose rear view is basically useless, when reversing out? I use the rear view cam and the side mirrors routinely for that purpose and that involves shifting focus sequentially between my side mirrors and the tablet screen view. I don’t perceive a significant issue with that process though I’m not in that age range.
On the road I do quick glances at the rear view mirror to see if there’s a car tailgating me occasionally but still mainly use the side mirrors for lane changes.

I have no problem with that usage. But it’s very different with a rear view mirror where you constantly move eyes between looking out the windshield and the mirror while your are driving. Your brain is equally trying to decide what to focus on and with a normal mirror it doesn’t matter because everything is far away. I’m also not convinced the issue is entirely age related as much as how the brain itself is wired or processes input.

 

[Eyeballs]

So for all the folks in that age range, how do they use the P2, whose rear view is basically useless, when reversing out? I use the rear view cam and the side mirrors routinely for that purpose and that involves shifting focus sequentially between my side mirrors and the tablet screen view. I don’t perceive a significant issue with that process though I’m not in that age range.
On the road I do quick glances at the rear view mirror to see if there’s a car tailgating me occasionally but still mainly use the side mirrors for lane changes.

Ok I’m sitting in my car right now. I’m 58, so a good judge of what I theorised. Also I’m tall.

dashboard and tablet are about 80cm from my eyes. The small text on the dash is slightly blurry as is the tablet but perfectly bearable.

The rear view mirror is significantly closer about 45cm. So things on there are blurrier, but you don’t need to read text on it, only see big cars, so again not an issue there.

However, what I did notice is that while a normal rear view mirror requires no change in the convergence of my eyes (as you’re still looking in the distance), placing a simulated camera view there requires significant and noticeable lag of convergence giving me momentary double vision and some momentary eye strain.

Now it is possible that’s because of learned behaviour with my brain expecting a distance view, and therefore will just take some adjusting to.

So jury is out until the Polestar is out. I predict some people will have significant visual discomfort using this setup, but just how many is hard to know.

Frankly for me I’d far prefer the rear view to take up the top part of the tablet. That would put it in the correct part of my multifocal glasses, so it would be clear, and my brain also expects to have to look closer to see in that point. It would alsoopen up the front view of the car more without a rear view mirror in the way.

 

[LeStar]

There won’t be a window on the P4 because it’s be too low down

It won’t be too low down, the bottom of the window is the top of the rear seats. It will be a bad window and that is why I think they went with this option at launch, it creates buzz. No designer would add a cutout like this for looks.
We will see.

 

[16208]

So for all the folks in that age range, how do they use the P2, whose rear view is basically useless, when reversing out? I use the rear view cam and the side mirrors routinely for that purpose and that involves shifting focus sequentially between my side mirrors and the tablet screen view. I don’t perceive a significant issue with that process though I’m not in that age range.
On the road I do quick glances at the rear view mirror to see if there’s a car tailgating me occasionally but still mainly use the side mirrors for lane changes.

I am considerably older than the age group you describe, and now have various glasses for functionality. I wish I could wear progressives, but the tunnel vision they produce is very disturbing.

I did have reservations about the size of the rear window when i test drove the PS2, but as the representative pointed out, I quickly adapted to it. It is quite adequate for me. I onluy wish the window didn't get so dirty, but the same i say for the rear pointing camera. I don;t understand why my vehicle seems to get dirty so quickly, in the rear, the space between the trunk and the rear bumper is dirty within 2 days of a car wash.

I developed cataracts fairly early in life, and had both removed. My vision is 20/20 when I squint, because I still have astigmatism, and, as a result, I do still wear corrective lenses for that. For driving I use pure distance glasses, and when nice out, i wear polarized lenses in sunglasses. I use all of my mirrors when driving, and yes, I use the mirrors and the rear camera when parking.

 

[Foxbat]

There are two cameras in the fin, so what if Polestar came up with a lenticular 3D monitor for the rear view mirror that alleviates the need to change your viewing perspective and focus from infinity to 45 cm?

 

[Knucklehead]

I do wear progressive lenses (although bifocals would have the same issue) and that is one reason the rear view mirror being a screen is also worse. You can quickly dart your eyes from looking forward to the screen as mirror without also significantly moving your head up and down. Not an issue with a really mirror looking at traffic behind you. This was indeed one of the issues I had when I tried one of the new screen/mirrors on a RAV4 3.5 years ago.

This is also not really an old person only issue as a large portion of the population start needed reading glasses or bifocals/progressives in the mid 40s.

 

[Knucklehead]

There are two cameras in the fin, so what if Polestar came up with a lenticular 3D monitor for the rear view mirror that alleviates the need to change your viewing perspective and focus from infinity to 45 cm?

That does not solve the issue. You basically have each eye still focusing using your near vision rather than your far vision. You do however get better depth perception which imho is not needed for a rear view mirror.

 

[Knucklehead]

The solution to the rear view mirror issues above is simple. Ditch the front windshield and make it one giant curved display.

Think of a whole new world of opportunities this would open up. Rainy days could all become sunny days, you could always be driving along a costal highways rather then congested city freeways….

VR googles would be an improvement over that and you could just put more sheet metal in place of the windshield.

 

[aowhaus]

Mercedes had a concept 7 years ago for a windowless EV:

Mercedes bonkers new car is driverless AND windowless. EH?

Computer says no fresh air - you'll just have to watch the world on a television screen

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[P0L35T4R3]

Interesting discussion regarding the rear view mirror. Currently driving an iPace with clearsight rear view mirror that uses a camera in the shark fin. Other drivers with vari focal or progressive eye glasses report some difficulty but in general it is much better than the letter box view of a normal mirror. Other benefits include not needing to adjust the mirror if you share the driving with another. I typically only glance my rear view mirror to look for other road users or flashing blues I’m not looking too hard for details. You will soon find it acceptable even with eye glasses.

 

[mjoelnir]

There is one more thing I dislike about the no-rear-window siutation: When I drive behind other cars, I like seeing THROUGH these cars in order to see what's AHEAD of them, so that I can adapt my driving style. I always hate driving behind a VW Bully or cars with heavily tinted rear windows because I absolutely have no idea about the general traffic situation ahead. In other words, even if some people could live with having no rear window on THEIR car, this could be a bad situation for the drivers of OTHER cars.

 

[PSinOR]

If the P4 had a rear window, the complaints about lack of visibility out of it would be 5-10x what they are for the already maligned P2.

 

[Eyeballs]

So for all the folks in that age range, how do they use the P2, whose rear view is basically useless, when reversing out? I use the rear view cam and the side mirrors routinely for that purpose and that involves shifting focus sequentially between my side mirrors and the tablet screen view. I don’t perceive a significant issue with that process though I’m not in that age range.
On the road I do quick glances at the rear view mirror to see if there’s a car tailgating me occasionally but still mainly use the side mirrors for lane changes.

Well the tablet is below eye level, meaning progressive addition lenses work fine. The only issue with the P4 is the rear view is set high.

Just get rid of the rear view mirror and put the camera feed in the top of the tablet. That would increase front visibility for tall people and solve the issue for old people. The rear view could also disappear when not needed like when parked.

I’m guessing there’s too many regulatory issues with that though, plus it’s just easier if your EV business is about modifying existing designs.

 

[Eyeballs]

I am considerably older than the age group you describe, and now have various glasses for functionality. I wish I could wear progressives, but the tunnel vision they produce is very disturbing.

I did have reservations about the size of the rear window when i test drove the PS2, but as the representative pointed out, I quickly adapted to it. It is quite adequate for me. I onluy wish the window didn't get so dirty, but the same i say for the rear pointing camera. I don;t understand why my vehicle seems to get dirty so quickly, in the rear, the space between the trunk and the rear bumper is dirty within 2 days of a car wash.

I developed cataracts fairly early in life, and had both removed. My vision is 20/20 when I squint, because I still have astigmatism, and, as a result, I do still wear corrective lenses for that. For driving I use pure distance glasses, and when nice out, i wear polarized lenses in sunglasses. I use all of my mirrors when driving, and yes, I use the mirrors and the rear camera when parking.

You need to spend more on better quality progressive lenses!