Very tough sell …. For the P3, of course.

 

Do you want a sporty wagon (that calls itself a SUV for the American market) or a truck? They are very different vehicles. It's like deciding between a Volvo R spec wagon and a Tahoe.

For serious offroading I'd rather have the Rivian. For long mountain drives on paved roads I'd rather have the Polestar.

Mind you I have the P2 now (plus an Outback) and do not have any more car buying budget for some time so it's pretty academic.

 

It's like deciding between a Volvo R spec wagon and a Tahoe.

I think the difference here is quite a bit larger, between a wagon and a huge SUV.

 

The P3 is like one of the only EV SUVs I'm not super excited for. I'll probably wait until I can test drive one to decide on it since I did that for the P2.

My R1T drives at least as good on the twisties as my P2 does. I have street tires on it.

 

Will they even be cross-shopped? I guess they can be. Mercedes EQS SUV and the upcoming Volvo EX90. What other E-SUVs will have 3 rows? Polestar 3 has far less space and I doubt it's made for much off-roading. Also, just not sure about Rivian as a company and their support, servicing, etc. Polestar seems a far more solid bet as the vehicles are based on Volvo and they have the Volvo plus Geely support behind them.

 

Will they even be cross-shopped?

Given we have deposits on both, yes.

We're looking for a bigger EV for family hauling duties, for more comfort on longer trips when we have some number of our parents with us (for carrying the 4 of us the P*2 is fine).
Contenders are the Lyriq, P*3, EX90, and R1S.

We also have a Lucid Air deposit but that's mostly just me - my wife doesn't really like the look of it, while I'm a fan of their tech.
My wife also basically hates anything Hyundai/Kia/Genesis for reasons I don't fully understand; and she hates Tesla too for reasons I more understand.
I just showed her a picture of the EQE SUV and she made a face that made me concerned that she might actually throw up.

In the US, that basically leaves those 4 options. I think we're most gravitating to the EX90 assuming its specs and look are what we expect, and especially if it comes in red.

 

It's interesting that people have all these multiple deposits down. What that starts to indicate is that the backlog that each of these companies has is much smaller than they think it is.

 

I think, while a lot of these reservations end up getting cancelled, a lot of people who don't have any reservations are now going to be interested in EVs in a couple years and the demand will still be there.

ICEs only real advantage is being able to road trip with absolutely minimizing the amount of time it takes to get from A to B. Personally I was one of those people in the past, doing up to 1300 mile trips in one go. I find the EV way of needing to take a 15-30 minute break every few hours a lot more relaxing, and I'd rather stop places to do things mid trip too.

 

The R1S is likely still underpriced for what it can do. 800+ hp with all the trick suspension

I wouldn't be surprised to see it's price go up by 15-20k before it really becomes available in volume

 

A 1300 mile road trip is much more enjoyable if you use an airplane instead of a gas or ev 😁

 

Well I don't know about you, but I find that airplanes taxi rather slowly. Doing that on a 1300 mile road trip would take an awfully long time. Forget about the road trip, I'd use the plane to fly

 

Why do you lot need cars so much bigger than the rest of the world?

 

Bizarre, isn't it. Americans as a group (as you guys might already be able to tell) are a bit narcissistic, and have come to have an inferiority complex. We need things BIG to overcome that. Big cars, big guns, big egos, etc... I think it's also related to why our democracy is in jeopardy.

 

We have had a deposit on an R1S for quite a while now - long enough to get the original pricing honored. Same config would be substantially more expensive today - by about $20k! I hope they continue to honor the original price. Heck, if my wife decides she doesn't like it we can probably unload it for a profit. Why a big SUV? Because she likes them AND she often uses the 7 seat capacity (her side of the family is quite large in number). She'll never offroad it so we didn't add any of those features. Hopefully we'll get a delivery date in the not-so-distant future.

 

190cm, 130kg and I'm not the biggest guy around in my friends/family. 14 year old grandson is 175cm and 95kg and rides in the back seat...a bit squeezed. And he's still growing. Just sayin...the P2 is fine for me and my driving, and my wife along on some drives. But the R1S will work much better with a crowd of big folks. I also have 700 m2 climate controlled floor space at home. Do we need it? No. But is it nice to have? Yes. So I guess it really comes down to preference, what is practical, and what it costs. If I lived in Tokyo, Manhattan, London, São Paulo, etc. then what I have here would not be practical or affordable (or neither). So again, it's all relative. I think @gray52452 has a good point: we have a lot of space so we tend to spread out and use it.

 

To this point I don’t think it’s just Americans who up size when they can to fill the space they’re in. Plenty of immigrants to the US in larger-than-necessary SUVs, and expats abroad driving small hatches.

likewise I’ve been across the pond a few times this year and saw plenty of Chelsea tractors on the road, no less than I see here.

 

My brother is a big guy but it’s his height, 6’6”, much more so than weight that causes him to need a truck (Ford F150) because the seating position and associated increased legroom. I don’t think he would be at all comfortably in a P2.


When I took my last pre-pandemic extended European vacation I was also surprised to see how heavy/large many Germans were. Younger folks were not heavy but older folks were definitely not svelte; it reminded me of what I see in many places in America where folks see large Americans. The difference being I did not see many of those Germans driving big American sized cars.

 

Swung by Rivian HQ today

 

🤮 🤮 🤮

What a boring uninspiring design. Like how a 3 year old would draw an SUV. Or the old classic where they put a hard top on the back of a pick up truck and say now you've got an SUV...

Nope, definitely not for me...Way to unsophisticated.

 

Although I'm not crazy about the design, I applaud the focus on function and usability. It's fine and looks as expensive as it is imo.

Either way, I'm happy it exists. It'll surely push the competitors appropriately.

 

I don't think they look that bad, however I really wish they'd come up with something a little more stylized at these two transition points.

 

however I really wish they'd come up with something a little more stylized at these two transition points.

That's why they look that bad.

 

We're talking about styling, which in this case has nothing to do with the reuse of motors, suspension, etc. That could all remain exactly the same and would not impact their choice of design on the two sections I highlighted.

I stand corrected that they do share front doors, but the aft doors are different, where the R1S, in my opinion, would have benefitted from the upward "swoosh" of the lower rear corner of the door to break up the block design currently on the R1S. Also, aft of the a-pillar they differ so that the R1S can accommodate that silver design element that runs the roof line back to the rear.

All of that is to say that aft of the A-pillar (save perhaps the front doors), they share no sheetmetal, like I said. Meaning they could have implemented different design aesthetics for the C and D pillars.

 

The “swoosh” on the R1T is forced due to the gear tunnel.

I want to like the R1S but it’s just too plain. Plus I really don’t need a 7 seater car anymore.

 

The R2S is really going to be the hot ticket, a lot more reasonable size.

3 rows is just unnecessary if you're not a soccer mom

 

3 rows is just unnecessary if you're not a soccer mom

Or have a large family on the spouse's side that all want to ride together everywhere.

 

It looks like the driver is very amused by your handiwork.

 

I'm part hermit, I never have 4 people in my car and I'm pretty sure I'd be really unhappy with 7 or 8 people riding along.

The 3 row things seem odd too because the 3rd row eats all the cargo space, so there's no chance you're hauling 7 people and 7 bags if you're going to the airport

 

I'm part hermit, I never have 4 people in my car and I'm pretty sure I'd be really unhappy with 7 or 8 people riding along.

The 3 row things seem odd too because the 3rd row eats all the cargo space, so there's no chance you're hauling 7 people and 7 bags if you're going to the airport

Toting 7 people is definitely an experience in itself, and entails an entirely different type of driving. It's like you are a chauffeur. Going on vacation even with 5 people in a 7 passenger SUV required me to add a roof top box for the extra luggage. In the old days you could get 9 people in a wagon...and a whole lot of luggage 😆

 

well I got my R1S delivery window as "Jan-Dec 2024" which I take to mean "you're at the back of the line - we'll get to you when we get to you"

So seems a wide window in which the P*3, EX90, or Lyriq could come earlier and take it.

 

well I got my R1S delivery window as "Jan-Dec 2024" which I take to mean "you're at the back of the line - we'll get to you when we get to you"

So seems a wide window in which the P*3, EX90, or Lyriq could come earlier and take it.

My R1T max pack is similarly estimated. Which is great cause my Polestar will be paid off by then and I’m hoping that it will still be worth in the 40K+ range. I figure I’ll have <20K miles on it even by Dec’24.

 

My R1S is July-Sep '23 so I guess I'm in a bit better shape. Let's hope that holds up. Less than a year off!

 

For serious offroading I'd rather have the Rivian. For long mountain drives on paved roads I'd rather have the Polestar.

 

have had deposits on both. i just saw and test drove the RS1 last week, and… cancelled my reservation. because it is absolutely HUGE. i say this as i just sold my Land Rover Defender 110. it’s bigger than that. great if you need all that space but i just don’t.

can’t wait for my PS3.

 

have had deposits on both. i just saw and test drove the RS1 last week, and… cancelled my reservation. because it is absolutely HUGE. i say this as i just sold my Land Rover Defender 110. it’s bigger than that. great if you need all that space but i just don’t.

can’t wait for my PS3.

Bigger in which way(s)? Defender 130 owner asking, also with deposits on R1S and P3.

 

2023 Chevrolet Suburban length is 226”. Rivian R1S length is 201”.
width and height are almost identical.

 

How long is a Tahoe?

 

2023 Chevrolet Tahoe is 211” long.

 

So it's surprisingly shorter than a Tahoe. It sure doesn't look it.

 

P3 is 8” shorter length than an R1S.

 

The P3 is basically a jacked up car. It's only got 2 rows.