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Discussion starter · #41 ·
I understand from this thread that since my home has a single phase 230v 50A, the smart charger that I intend to install, Smappee EV Wall 1-phase up to 7.4kw, is largely enough for charging nightly. Am I right ?
By the way Belgian owners, any feedback on Smappee?
Running of the same 230V 50A mains connection. 7.4 kW is enough (even to keep two cars charged with a little coordination). But 32A for the charger leaves only 18A for the house. You must protect that 50A main fuse. My Wallbox will control the current down to not exceed 50A total. Will the Smappee do the same?
 
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Yikes! 50A for the entire home? I missed that. I would limit your charging to no more than 24A least you blow that fuse/breaker. And even at 24A and 230v, that's still 5.5kw which should put in about 16kph. That's still plenty unless you plan on running the car nearly dry every day. Ask yourself how often you drive more than 160km in a given day.
 
Will the Smappee do the same?
They say: "Safe charging without blown fuses. The Smappee EV Wall is a compact, user-friendly, and beautiful solution for residential charging. The EV Wall is fitted with overload protection. This ensures that the electrical system of your home stays within its power limit, meaning you no longer have to worry about blown fuses when charging. Smappee automatically adjusts the charging capacity of your charging station to fit your energy needs at home."
 
They say: "Safe charging without blown fuses. The Smappee EV Wall is a compact, user-friendly, and beautiful solution for residential charging. The EV Wall is fitted with overload protection. This ensures that the electrical system of your home stays within its power limit, meaning you no longer have to worry about blown fuses when charging. Smappee automatically adjusts the charging capacity of your charging station to fit your energy needs at home."
Sounds good. Particularly overnight when you are not using a lot of juice at home, you should be able to fill up.
 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
They say: "Safe charging without blown fuses. The Smappee EV Wall is a compact, user-friendly, and beautiful solution for residential charging. The EV Wall is fitted with overload protection. This ensures that the electrical system of your home stays within its power limit, meaning you no longer have to worry about blown fuses when charging. Smappee automatically adjusts the charging capacity of your charging station to fit your energy needs at home."
That will require a mains current sensor of some sort to be connected to the charger. Make sure that is included in the installation.
 
Off topic as it's not for the Polestar, but thought this was a great rundown of the battery tech in the Lucid Air, with some nice physics/elec eng 101 material
 
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I understand from this thread that since my home has a single phase 230v 50A, the smart charger that I intend to install, Smappee EV Wall 1-phase up to 7.4kw, is largely enough for charging nightly. Am I right ?
By the way Belgian owners, any feedback on Smappee?
Well, Unit-T just installed my Smappee charger ... but still no P2 to charge.
 
Yesterday I set off with the SoC at 90% and after 57 miles of driving I was at 69%. With another 200 miles ahead of me I hooked up at the fast Gridserve chargers at M4 J47 (the oasis in the desert!) and charged back up to 90% ..all good.

Unusually, it was a round number of units (well, 19.99kWh for £9.99 at 50p / kWh) so I just thought I'd see how that compared with what I thought it would be.

Now, at the risk of embarrassing myself because I've missed something:

I'd consumed 21% of the battery capacity (90% to 69%) . The stated battery capacity is 78kWh, so 21% of this is 16.4kWh. So why did it take 20kWh of energy to put the 21% back in (back up to 90%)? Where did the extra 3.6kWh go?

That's an 18% loss..

(It took about 20 mins to charge, so the charge rate was only about 60kWh / hour)
 
The usable battery capacity is somewhere between 72.5kWh-75kWh, not the full 78kWh installed (some held back as safety buffer). There is 5%-10% charging losses/overhead as well (inefficiency in the process etc). Explains some of it but perhaps not all of it.
 
I was not sure if I should make this little write up, because I was concerned it would be taken as pedantic. It is not intended to be, it is just that I saw many confusing statements in the posts, so I thought it might be a good reminder for what we all already know. If I get a chance before this thread is completely derailed, I can add some posts as to what this means for charging batteries and running electric motors. And maybe a part 2: Distance, Speed, Acceleration, Torque, Power and Energy.

Part 1: Voltage, Current, Power, Energy and Resistance

Voltage is used to express an electric potential difference. You can compare this to the pressure on a water pipe. The potential (we usually say voltage) is usually abbreviated as a capital U, and the unit of measurement for the potential is the Volt, abbreviated as a capital V. A capital V is used because this was defined by Allessandro Volta.

Current is used to express the flow of electric charge. You can compare this to the flow from a water pipe. The current is usually abbreviated as a capital I, and the unit of measurement for current is the Ampere, abbreviated as a capital A. Again a capital A is used because this was defined by André-Marie Ampère.

Power (electric) is used to express the rate of transfer of electricity. The power is usually abbreviated as a capital P, and the unit of measurement for the power is the Watt, abbreviated as a capital W. Guess what, a capital W is used because this was defined by James Watt. Electric power is simply calculated as the product of the voltage and the current (P = U x I).

Energy is used to express the capacity to do work (as in make your car move). Energy is usually abbreviated as a capital E, and the standard unit of measurement for energy is the Joule, but for electric energy we prefer to use the kilo-Watt-hour, abbreviated as kWh. Electric energy is calculated as the product of power and time (E = P x t), to express the energy in kWh, the power has to be in kW and the time in hours. Energy is not power divided by time so the unit is not kW/h.

Resistance is used to express the opposition to the flow of electricity. Resistance is abbreviated as a capital R, and the standard unit measurement for resistance is the Ohm. The Ohm (or Ω) was defined by Georg Ohm. The resistance is calculated as the ratio between the voltage and the current (R = U / I). This is Ohm's law, usually written as U = I x R. Above we saw that the power is calculated as P = U x I, so we can combine the two equations to calculate the power loss in a resistor as P = R x I x I.

Notes:
The small k in kW or kWh is not a unit, but simply a multiplier. In the case of the small k it is a multiplier of 1,000. Other examples are the capital M for 1,000,000 and the small m for 0.001. A large K is reserved for the unit of temperature, yes defined by Lord Kelvin. So if you see KW instead of kW that is a (non-sensical) Kelvin-Watt.

The above is simplified for usage on DC systems (like our batteries) and averaged AC systems (like our motors). It can get a lot more complicated for AC systems when considering the phase shifting between current and voltage.


Part 2: Batteries

Batteries are complicated. No, let me rephrase that, batteries are very, very, complicated.

A battery is used to store electric energy. In a battery the electric energy is actually changed into chemical energy when charging and back into electric energy when discharging. So you could state that a battery is used to store chemical energy. And that is the difference with a capacitor. A capacitor is also used to store electric energy, but it accumulates the electrons when charging and releases the electrons when discharging without transformation. Therefore a capacitor is more efficient and can charge and discharge faster. But even todays super capacitors cannot store enough energy (per liter) for use in an EV. Hence we stick with batteries.

The cell has a cell voltage. There are many different battery chemistries and the chemistry determines the cell voltage. Although the cell voltage of cells in a battery pack in use is also depended on the state of charge, the current, the temperature and a few more factors. It's complicated.

An EV battery is build from cells, these cells are made into modules, and the modules into a pack. The modules are put in a string (in series) and the strings are connected in parallel. The number of cells in each string determines the pack voltage U [Volt], the total number of cells determines the pack energy capacity E [kWh].

An important performance measure for battery technologies is the energy density. This is either the gravimetric energy density, expressed as the ratio of energy and volume (Wh/liter), or the volumetric energy density, expressed as the ratio of energy and mass (Wh/kg). For EV applications, here is where much of the development is, looking for lighter, smaller batteries for the same energy. Lead-acid batteries gravimetric density was too low to be practical for electric vehicles, the much higher gravimetric density of Li-Ion batteries enabled 'real world use' electric vehicles.

The State of Charge (SoC) of a battery is the ratio of the energy in battery and the capacity of the battery. So the SoC has no unit of measure and is usually expressed as a percentage. However, both the energy contained in a battery and the capacity of the battery can be defined in different ways, the SoC calculation depends heavily on those definitions. For instance the manufacturer defines bottom and top buffers, that is capacity that is not used to extend battery life as a trade off. Did I mention that it is complicated?

Batteries degrade over time. Degradation depends on the battery technology and the use (abuse) over time. The degradation means lower battery capacity. So over time you will loose some of the ability to store energy, and thus range.

The State of Health (SoH) of a battery is usually considered as the ratio of the current capacity of the battery and the original (new) capacity of the battery. Thus also the SoH has no unit of measure and is expressed as a percentage.

So the energy stored at 100% SoC for a new battery is not the same as at 100% SoC of a used battery. The actual energy stored is the original capacity multiplied by the SoC and the SoH.

Notes:
There is much more to be said about batteries. We can talk about the difference between kWh and Ah, we can talk about the mechanisms of battery degradation, etc. Its complicated, but I think I mentioned that.


Part 3: Charging

Batteries charge and discharge with DC (directed current). Electric power is transmitted as AC (alternating current) (thank you Nikolai, indeed Thomas was wrong), so we need a conversion from AC to DC to be able the charge.

So an AC charger is not a charger at all. It is an AC power source for your onboard charger. The onboard charger converts the AC power into DC power to charge the battery. The maximum power is limited by either the AC power source (the outlet, your wall box or the public 'charger') or by the car's onboard charger, whichever is lower.

A DC charger delivers the DC power directly to the battery. Therefore the two heavy contacts in a DC charger connector. The maximum power is limited by the charger's voltage, current or power limit, or by the battery. When charging on 350 kW DC charger, the car may very well control the voltage to limit the power to say 150 kW or less depending on the battery type, the SoC, the temperature, ... The DC charger can deliver a current up to 400A, that explains the hefty cables and connectors these use.

In both cases the DC charge voltage is controlled by the car to optimize the charge process without damaging the battery. For an AC charger the onboard charger controls the DC charge voltage, and for a DC charger the desired charge voltage is communicated by the car to the external charger.

A battery cell and thus a pack has an internal resistance. So when charging or discharging a battery pack you will lose some energy. It is transformed into heat. Also your onboard charger is not 100% efficient. And the charging cable has losses too. The total charging loss is typically about 5 to 10%. So charge equipment may report more energy delivered than you effectively added to the battery.

Notes:
Your wall box is actually an implementation of Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment (EVSE).


Part 4: Inverters and Motors

Coming soon ...
You should write book called “Electrical Principles for EV owner dummies” - make some money from your pedantic write up! Skimmed through it and liked the principles! Being a Mechanical, Industrial and Manufacturing engineer, EE hasn’t been a code for me, so I appreciate the thought strategy and the initiative for putting this together. If you need to understand how manufacturing and lean principles are adopted or Theory of Constraints (Eli Goldratt) in EV manufacturing, let me know. 🙂😎
 
So those of us using OPD will be suffering earlier battery degradation compared to those of us who coast...
I'm afraid I like OPD too much to care though.
 
So those of us using OPD will be suffering earlier battery degradation compared to those of us who coast...
I'm afraid I like OPD too much to care though.
There is practically zero difference in the amount of regen with or without OPD. Without OPD you get the regen with the brake pedal, if it is on, you get some from the accelerator and the rest from the brake pedal. It may be a bit harder to coast with OPD on standard, which is more efficient than regen but other than that just enjoy the OPD.
 
i like to think of a water tank with a hose.

The volume of the water tank is the battery capacity, kWh.

The diameter of the hose is the flow rate or charging rate (or rate of energy loss when driving), kW.

Once I got my head around that I was fine.
 
The diameter of the hose is the flow rate or charging rate (or rate of energy loss when driving), kW.
Very close, but not close enough for my OCD ;)

The diameter of the hose is the resistance of the cable (which affects the flow rate), the pressure in the hose is the voltage (which also affects the flow rate) and the flow rate is the current.

The energy ((k)W) of the water running through the hose is the pressure (voltage) multiplied with the flow rate (current).
 
What is the highest DC voltage a PS2 accepts? The last couple of times I charged at a CCS charger. Last time I started with 25% (I stopped at 50% because 30% would take me home to my AC charger). Both times at (different) Electrify America stations, with a rated 350KW maximum. Both times, I got a steady 90A at just under 400V = 36KW. Obviously, there could be some issue with those chargers, but it seems too consistent to be an issue with those particular chargers at different stations, or for some reason my car is limiting the speed.

I'm curious - for any of you who have charged at higher speeds, what Voltage and Amperage do you get?
 
What is the highest DC voltage a PS2 accepts? The last couple of times I charged at a CCS charger. Last time I started with 25% (I stopped at 50% because 30% would take me home to my AC charger). Both times at (different) Electrify America stations, with a rated 350KW maximum. Both times, I got a steady 90A at just under 400V = 36KW. Obviously, there could be some issue with those chargers, but it seems too consistent to be an issue with those particular chargers at different stations, or for some reason my car is limiting the speed.

I'm curious - for any of you who have charged at higher speeds, what Voltage and Amperage do you get?
Nominal max is 150kW. I’ve seen up to 154kW on an EA charger and low battery %.
At a properly working charger the polestar will pull >100kW up to and past 50-60% and goes down from there to 80% after which it drops.

When EA chargers overheat they seem to get locked into a max of 35KW or so like you saw
 
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