Won’t be able to see out of it. The rear view mirror is positioned much higher than the actual window so it would be pointed downwards reducing visibility to next to nothing.

It may or may not look more appealing dependent on a persons preferences but would still require the rear camera to effectively see what’s behind the car.

 

My theory is that Polestar designed that as a separate panel so they could throw glass in there in an emergency if one of their large markets (read: the US) pushed back on the windowless design.

 

This was my take, too! I’d almost argue that if they did this, they would do what GM has done in the past, where the rear view mirror can switch between two modes (reflective, and screen). That little gimmick seemed silly in the cars I’ve seen it in, where the rear view was more than ample. But in this case, that’d actualy work nicely here. Gives people a chance to recognize and experience the fact that the camera is ‘better” but if people preferred crappy reflective mirror, they have that option too. Let the user pick —

 

like this a bit better than the windowless version, tbh.

maybe because I'm not used to seeing cars without rear windows, but the p4 (especially from back straight on) looks a bit off. the sheet metal is too high and makes the rear look boring.

Your photoshopped designs adds some depth and design elements. it breaks up the design, especially in lighter colors.

 

kind of like seeing EVs with no semblance of a front grille, it will take some time for people to get used to that look (it’s like seeing a blank face), especially when car grills are so enormous these days -- thanks to Audi for starting this trend.
With no rear window you can no longer easily flip the finger to some tailgater or a-hole driver behind you! 😁

 

Makes me wonder if it might actually be possible to change the panel out for glass.

 

Personally I’m fine with the camera for the rear view mirror instead of an actual mirror; however, my dog would appreciate the natural light if such a glass screen were to be made available. As many have said (including myself), being able to accommodate the favourite child in comfort is paramount and this could solve a very real problem. I don’t mind if I can’t actually see out of the rear window myself.

 

I was wondering about the curious seam in the sheet metal on the rear hatchback and the reason or purpose of it, if there is any. So thinking what if the P4 had a rear window and that middle panel becomes glass, I did a quick photoshop to illustrate this. I'm not sure if I like it or not:

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I wondered the same. Then dismissed my thought as being trivial since the design is finalised According to Polestar. What ifs, woulda, coulda, possiblys aren’t worth the effort. It is what it is (and I don’t have a dog) and Thomas Ingenlath seems to have clearly determined that a camera shows more than a rear view mirror and a small window between two headrests. I tend to agree.

 

There are a lot of vehicles on the road already that lack rear windows, just very few happen to be passenger cars.

As for looks, I like the look of the rear window in your rendering. Nothing that can’t be solved with a slice of vinyl wrap for adding some visual interest.

 

I thought I read somewhere that by removing the window, they were able to improve the structural strength of the cabin, and increase interior volume and passenger room.
It might be the other way around in that, by the time they got the volume and strength to where they wanted, the window was too small to be useful, and then took the next step and eliminated it.
Personally, the rear view out of my PS2 is as close to useless as any car I've ever actually driven. I just don't use it. I am very interested to "see" what the camera can do to improve that.

 

I agree. The window is never used. I do check (habit I guess) but the information coming back is just to check how close other vehicles are.

 

You read my mind. Thank you for this, now I can visualize it. I like it. Even if the window shows miniumum, i still prefer it over metal. Wouldn't glass be cheaper than metal anyway? Lets hope like someone said, the seam may allow future install of a glass option.

 

Wouldn't glass be cheaper than metal anyway?

No way. It's not only the glass, but it would also need to be fitted with a heating element, you need a separate seal, you'd need production line workers or machinery to fit it, etc., etc.. Whereas with the metal it's just stamped and painted along with the rest of the component/car.

The hatch on the car that was revealed looks like a single pressed piece that wasn't stamped out. That would be the absolute cheapest way to manufacture that part. Then there's the option where it's pressed and stamped, so that they're two separate metal pieces. That would then require the same/similar seal to a window, but they'd still save on the cost of heated glass.

 

I've used two types of rear view cameras. One on my Bolt EV, and one on a Land Rover Defender.

After about 30s of your brain being confused, and weirdly, my eyes felt weird as I think they were really used to focusing on a mirror not a screen and my brain and them were like 'what the hell is this'

I must say, the cameras are better than a mirror, especially with rear obstructions like people, spare tire on back of car, etc. I'm looking forward to seeing how they do it, and doubt I'll miss the window.

 

Yes I had that experience where it delayed my focusing by a 1/2 second (more?) and was very noticeable. I loved the wider view but the effect on my eyes was very hard to deal with. The issue is with a screen you are focusing using your near vision and it is mono to stereo. With a real mirror you are focusing in the distance and in stereo—which is the same as focusing on the stuff your looking at thru the front window.

Couple that with how less flexible your lenses are as you age makes it hard on the eyes. That and your eyes muscle memory is completely screwed up.

It ends up being a real issue as your eyes are often darting looking forward and then glancing at the rear view mirror.

 

Yes I had that experience where it delayed my focusing by a 1/2 second (more?) and was very noticeable. I loved the wider view but the effect on my eyes was very hard to deal with. The issue is with a screen you are focusing using your near vision and it is mono to stereo. With a real mirror you are focusing in the distance and in stereo—which is the same as focusing on the stuff your looking at thru the front window.

Couple that with how less flexible your lenses are as you age makes it hard on the eyes. That and your eyes muscle memory is completely screwed up.

It ends up being a real issue as your eyes are often darting looking forward and then glancing at the rear view mirror.

Seems use of one of these will intrinsically force a form of eye exercise - maybe can help stave off some of the effects of aging then!! (half joking...)

I suspect @Eyeballs might have a thing to say here

 

Anyone can test how it is to refocus eye every time you look in the mirror. Instead of looking at the mirror look at the rim etc. and you will notice it takes some time to refocus.
This is tiresome for the eye and maybe not much when you are young but more and more the older you get.

That and the lack of depth perception are common complaints about using a screen instead of mirror.

But the cutout and that they showed the expensive rear view mirror that can switch between mirror and screen make me believe that they will have a window on the P4.

 

There won’t be a window on the P4 because it’s be too low down for you to be able to see through it if they did, since they’ve moved the horizontal bar above the rear passengers to behind them instead.

Focussing on the screen is clearly an issue as you get older. I’d say the biggest issue will be 50 to 60 year-olds that still have some ability to focus but not quite enough. Before that age and you can still focus at that 60cm distance. After that and you can’t focus at all anyway, so it’ll just be blurry. But in between you might try to focus, not quite get it clear, but then also be a bit slow refocusing to distance. But really no worse than if you’re that age and don’t wear multifocals when driving (looking at the dashboard is a similar distance).

So now we have some exclusions for P4 buyers:

• dog owners
• people 50 to 60 years old
• people that hate Google or love Elon Musk

 

There are two cameras in the fin, so what if Polestar came up with a lenticular 3D monitor for the rear view mirror that alleviates the need to change your viewing perspective and focus from infinity to 45 cm?

 

That does not solve the issue. You basically have each eye still focusing using your near vision rather than your far vision. You do however get better depth perception which imho is not needed for a rear view mirror.

 

I do wear progressive lenses (although bifocals would have the same issue) and that is one reason the rear view mirror being a screen is also worse. You can quickly dart your eyes from looking forward to the screen as mirror without also significantly moving your head up and down. Not an issue with a really mirror looking at traffic behind you. This was indeed one of the issues I had when I tried one of the new screen/mirrors on a RAV4 3.5 years ago.

This is also not really an old person only issue as a large portion of the population start needed reading glasses or bifocals/progressives in the mid 40s.

 

The solution to the rear view mirror issues above is simple. Ditch the front windshield and make it one giant curved display.

Think of a whole new world of opportunities this would open up. Rainy days could all become sunny days, you could always be driving along a costal highways rather then congested city freeways….

VR googles would be an improvement over that and you could just put more sheet metal in place of the windshield.

 

Mercedes had a concept 7 years ago for a windowless EV:

Mercedes bonkers new car is driverless AND windowless. EH?

Computer says no fresh air - you'll just have to watch the world on a television screen

www.mirror.co.uk

 

Interesting discussion regarding the rear view mirror. Currently driving an iPace with clearsight rear view mirror that uses a camera in the shark fin. Other drivers with vari focal or progressive eye glasses report some difficulty but in general it is much better than the letter box view of a normal mirror. Other benefits include not needing to adjust the mirror if you share the driving with another. I typically only glance my rear view mirror to look for other road users or flashing blues I’m not looking too hard for details. You will soon find it acceptable even with eye glasses.

 

There is one more thing I dislike about the no-rear-window siutation: When I drive behind other cars, I like seeing THROUGH these cars in order to see what's AHEAD of them, so that I can adapt my driving style. I always hate driving behind a VW Bully or cars with heavily tinted rear windows because I absolutely have no idea about the general traffic situation ahead. In other words, even if some people could live with having no rear window on THEIR car, this could be a bad situation for the drivers of OTHER cars.

 

If the P4 had a rear window, the complaints about lack of visibility out of it would be 5-10x what they are for the already maligned P2.

 

You're right, but I don't think that's what Knucklehead meant.

He was saying that no kind of lens, not the best one in the world, prescribed by the best optician on earth, will change the fact that looking at an internal screen instead of an actual mirror for the rear-view will require a shift in focus..

You look out of the windscreen - distance
You look in your side mirrors - distance
You then have to look at a screen 200mm from your head - near

It's pretty unnatural, and not the same as looking down at your instruments.

 

I also assume they design it so they can add windows as an option on the fly, still with the camera, but a small window below as emergency (or dashcams) etc. Just to avoid the risk by going to markets, that would demand a window.

 

A so-called compliance window 😉

 

Now I might be vilified for this but… I think I prefer the Zeeker

 

They say they’re coming to Europe with the Zeekr001 soon so you might be in luck! (Depending on definitions of Europe…)

 

They've not yet confirmed when they will be bringing it to the place where we drive on the correct side of the road...

 

You mean where you don't drive on the right side of the road.

 

Exactly, not the right side, the correct side.