First 4km and such strange unbelievable bug? Strange strange. Never noticed such behaviour.

 

so it accelerated without even hitting the throttle pedal?

 

well, good everybody is ok.

about the issue, it's VERY strange.
there are hundreds of drivers here and i don't remember any report similar to this.
there have been some confused report of about possible bugs concerning sudden accelerations in XC40 early on, but i don't have infos of any clear issue identified.

since it's been 4 km and it was a rented car (so you prolly were still not used to it) i may think of different explanations:
1- there was an armed CC, you pressed the brake and stopped the car, left the brake, and then inadvertently touched CC's resume button (it happens) on the wheel, so that the car tried to reach the set speed again.
2- you were on ACC, the radar caught a reflexion after coming to complete stop and creeped forward for a few cm, you were caught by surprise and tried to stop it pressing accelerator by mistake (it happens).
3- you were with OPD off, come to stop with the brakes and before holding were engaged you released the pressure, the car creeped forward for a few cm, you were caught by surprise and tried to stop it pressing accelerator by mistake (it happens).
4- you were with OPD on, come to stop then relaxed waiting for green signal and rested the foot on what you thought was the brake, but partially pressed the accelerator that is a "brake" only in part of the travel.
5- there's some bug in the system and that was one if not the only car affected, or even a single damage/defect to some systems/electronics. You've been very unlucky and then it would be interesting to know what model and software was it.

 

4- you were with OPD on, come to stop then relaxed waiting for green signal and rested the foot on what you thought was the brake, but partially pressed the accelerator that is a "brake" only in part of the travel.

My vote is on this.

 

That does seem weird, but we do have some reported cases of similar abrupt accelerations happening to Volvo XC40's and C40's in Norway that might be related. I can't post links due to my account age, but if you look up "Volvo acceleration Norway" you will find a previous thread about this.

 

Well, I don’t want to be rude but this sounds a bit off. Especially the comment from someone who just joined 58 minutes ago to post their comment as their first comment. 🤨

 

I'm not saying this is guaranteed to be the same situation, I'm just saying there have been at least 3 cases of abrupt accelerations happening with Volvo cars in Norway the last few years with one ending in a fatality, so it's not too far fetched that this might be related.

 

Another post of user, who joined 2 hours ago

 

Everyone has to join sometime, just because someone is new doesn't make their opinion less valid...

It's not like the post was incorrect either - there are people reporting this type of behaviour on X(C)40s and also in this very forum related to P*2.

 

Of course. It is very possible.

What tickled my spider sense were:

• Been here for 3+ years and don’t recall any similar issue being reported.
• 10 mins after joining the forum the first post is about an issue that you just heard about?

Just applied the occams razor but I might be way off.

 

Got any photos of the damage? I'm curious.

 

I rented a Polestar today around 4:30 PM and left the station, soon after driving 4 Km the car met with an accident
Here is the sequence of event.
1) I went on complete stop by pressing the brakes on red signal. I stop 12 to 15 feet behind the front vehicle as it was signal.
2) I had my foot on brake partially loosen it.
2) After 3 sec all of sudden the car accelerated so fast that even i press the brake it didn't stoped and hit the car in front of me.
I was so surprised this was my first time driving Polstar 2 I have never driven before. I have been driving car for past 10 years and never had experienced anything like happening like this before.
It is completely evident that this has to be some bug in the system.

we were luck no one got majorly injured.

Was this the first time driving an electric car?
”It is completely evident that this has to be some bug in the system.” No, it’s not completely evident!

 

Pics or it didn't happen. OR foot touching both pedals? I have CIPN and that is something I had issue with, and actually the Polestar 2 was one of the easier cars for me to drive.

 

Yup, sounds like driver error to me. Unfamiliar with PS2, likely unfamiliar with EVs. Also seems strange that someone woukd join group just to post this. Elonald, is that you?

 

Rent a car, hit someone and first thought is to Google for a Polestar forum and create a post about this. Nahhh.

 

There is literally a post from someone on here about their P2 they have had (and are very familiar with) for ages doing this in their garage - maybe it is user error in this instance, but maybe it's not...

 

Hi Guys, my intention was pure to report and understand exact root cause. the reason i joined now coz it didnt allow me to post the message until i join group. i have zero intention but 100 % truth as I am not herefor any proving since there is no human causality. 1 thing i am sure that I never lift the foot from brake when it is signal Red. As I have always driven gas car for 10 years , i know that car will creep forward if you lift the foot, but I lifted foot partially that means the force that in use for initially stoping is less then the force i need to hold the brake and keep the car is stoped condition.

 

For what it's worth, I've had this happen. OPD on standard, creep off, had owned the car for months at this point. Got a loaner cuz mine was in the shop. Came up to a light on regen, tapped the brake to engage the (H) Hold. After about 10 or 15 seconds, (my feet away from pedals), the car lept forward. Luckily I was first at the light, and luckily when I hit the brake it stopped the car. But it definitely happened....first time in my ~25 years of driving.

 

I know of no car on the planet that the motor or motors can override the brakes...

 

Yup

It's either a fake story or pedal mis application

People mix up gas and brakes all the time

 

Except our brake pedals don't specifically engage the brakes every time they are pressed - it's all driven by electronic signals and software... Which of course, never go wrong...

 

And of course there's no redundant safety designed into the system at all....

 

Since it was a rental, driver was therefore unfamiliar with the car. This issue is more likely aligned with the cause of similar past incidents with Toyota and Tesla: car data showed that the accelerator was pressed and not the brake (would be great to hear from Polestar on this). I bet creep was on. With light or full One Pedal Driving there is no need to keep the foot on the break pedal at a stop (or even when breaking). A bad habit from ICE days.

 

… there is no need to keep the foot on the break pedal at a stop.

If there is indeed a break pedal I hope it’s not easily accessible. No one would want to accidentally break their car 😋

 

I have owned the car for over 4 years now and had a similar incident.
Make sure you let Polestar Canada (a dealership) know. I had the same thing happen to me (different parameters).
They then send all the telemetry to Polestar to figure out why it happened.
This needs to be reported. There have now been a few cases of this.

 

Sorry, I think you misinterpreted my post: the gist was, the brakes on our cars don't even get applied unless a certain level of brake force is exceeded. Therefore if the OP didn't need to brake particularly hard when they came to rest, it's entirely feasible at that point the car was being held only by the motor, no brakes involved, and therefore if the motor then received a go signal (whether through the throttle or erroneous signal) it could behave this way even while the OP still had the brake pedal depressed. The fact the emergency collision avoidance also didn't kick in points more to a system failure than to human error in my opinion.

Like you, I've had plenty of experience of it being very unwilling to go when it perceives an obstruction.

 

I do a lot of P2 research, this behavior is unknow for P2, could happens, maybe, like any new car that has electronic everywhere, but never seem. I have MY24 LRSM P2 for little more than a year and +35k Kms on it.
For me the new user never had used a EV and is not used to the difference that is. If enabled the ACC, should recognize the car in front of it and brake. Like said before I think that the driver mistakenly pressed the acceleration instead the brakes, that happens, no shame on it, but even that the car has the emergency brakes, that is kind of annoying some times, that detect something and brake automatically and abruptly, but if you pressed too hard the acceleration, could have no time to stop.
OPD enable? Creep on? off? there is many possibilities to misled new EV drives.
I don't know what was the P2 version, mine with one motor has already violent acceleration, we are talking about approximately 300 cv, few meters to get fast.
Anyway as said Polestar can see the telemetry. there is a audit log for what happens with the car, is like a airplane black box, but for the car, almost every detail is there.
If you can, share some pictures,
Just hope that you got the full insurance for the car.

PS. When you drive EV like P2 for the first time, you never had experience like that either.

 

Now, after being stationary for a few seconds the auto hold should have kicked in

just to understand each others here: there's "hold", there's "stationary", and there's "parking".

Hold can be engaged by firmly pressing the brake pedal for a sec or two, and is noted by the grey (H) symbol on driver's display. Hold uses normal brake pads oil pressure. it is NOT engaged automatically.
Parking can be manually engaged by pressing P on the central console or automatically while opening the door with no seatbelt fastened for driver's seat, and is noted by the red (P) symbol. Parking screws in a physical wedge in the calipers, so to keep the car stopped even with no oil pressure.
Stationary is automatically engaged every time the car is stopped with creep off, or while creeping ahead if a car is quickly approaching from behind. It's a safety measure for damage mitigation in case of rear collision, and i have the feeling, which is not supported by any official info, that goes with normal oil pressure initially then switching to "wedges" if the stop continues (roughly 1/2 minute?) as the movement of the wedges is audible.
EDIT: i found the info on user manual: after 5 minutes stationary the car goes into parking mode.

now it's not given that stationary brakes kick in EXACTLY in the moment the car stops.
if i'm driving with OPD, ACC, and creep off and i'm coming "manually" to a stop, i leave the brakes and it engages after maybe one or two EDIT: 3 secs as per user manual, and i see the brake lights going back on.
if i'm with ACC and creep off, the car comes to a stop behind the previous car with regen blended braking. then it will pass a few seconds before it engages stationary logic. if the radar gets some reflection and the car creeps a few cm ahead, it IS moving, so no stationary. if the stop is less than two/three secs, it still is not in stationary, so much so that if the previous car goes forward again the car follows it without any input from the driver. if you've been stationary for long enough THEN stationary logic kicks in, the car settles, and if the previous car goes forward you get the "ready to drive" alert message on the display and it's required that you to touch the gas pedal to move.

so it's quite uncertain which situation are we talking about for the OP...

the brakes on our cars don't even get applied unless a certain level of brake force is exceeded. Therefore if the OP didn't need to brake particularly hard when they came to rest, it's entirely feasible at that point the car was being held only by the motor, no brakes involved, and therefore if the motor then received a go signal (whether through the throttle or erroneous signal) it could behave this way even while the OP still had the brake pedal depressed. The fact the emergency collision avoidance also didn't kick in points more to a system failure than to human error in my opinion.

again the brakes can be applied for any brake pedal force, even very light.
just put it in neutral and you'll hear the pads on the discs as soon as you touch the brake pedal.
and it can't be any different, since the system needs to be failproof so you MUST have brake authority if electronics goes bad.
what happens is that in normal regen functioning you press the brake pedal and ABS ECU cuts your braking pressure away while directing it to the engine for regen. but as soon as engines are taken away (with Neutral, for example, or when the car is switched off) you have the pads on the discs as soon as you touch the brakes.
P2s are not ever held stationary by motors. (this is different in early and lighter BEVs like the first Zoe, where a steel spike is forced in a fenestrated wheel inside the gearbox when "P" is engaged. i've risked destroying the engine once...)

even that the car has the emergency brakes

caution.
the automatic collision avoidance brake kicks in ONLY if it detects a "passive driving situation".
if the car thinks that you are "actively driving" (words from user manual. i'm not sure about the list of conditions behind this logic) you have authority and it will let you drive down a cliff...

in general, in drive by wire designs your default state is the 'least likely to injure/damage/kill' and your engage state is the 'can cause problems if done wrong'.

exactly.
it is the same with the tri-valve in heavy vehicles.
for trucks the air pressure in the system keeps the brakes OPEN when the pedal is not pressed, it does not close it when the pedal is pressed. this to lead to an automatic braking if the pressure in the system is lost.
lighter vehicles have the brake system split in two halves with Right Front wheel braked with the same circuit of Rear Left and LF with RR, so that if one circuit is damaged you can stop with the other two wheels.
BBW is between the driver and the brakes when it's working, so that in case of fault it will fall back to normal hydraulic functioning.
and there's the mechanical backup of parking brake on both rear wheels.

 

just put it in neutral and you'll hear the pads on the discs as soon as you touch the brake pedal.

This is irrelevant to the conversation. Putting the car in neutral disengages the motors so of course the motors cannot be part of the braking action in this case!

If the car is in drive the brakes are only used beyond a certain applied braking force. This is well documented. Why else do you think there are so many threads on here about rusty brake discs and using the neutral (or reversing) trick to clean them? If the brakes were always engaged as part of the blended braking the discs would be used (at least lightly) every time you touch the brake pedal (or come off the accelerator in OPD) so we wouldn't need tricks to force their use.

I don't know how many times it's been discussed, but OPD setting makes zero difference to the braking behaviour of the car, only the amount of pedal hopping you need to do. Regardless of whether the process is started by coming off the accelerator or by pushing down on the brake pedal, it's computer controlled and uses the motors until it deems the mechanical brakes are necessary.

So: I say again, it is entirely feasible that the OP came to a gentle stop behind another car at the lights, at no point engaging the mechanical brakes of the car. In my experience, the hold function automatically engages if the car is stationary for more than a few seconds (I often feel it happen whether my foot is on the brake or not). Maybe this is what you refer to as 'stationary'? I refer to this as auto hold because it's doing the same thing in my opinion as the firm press on the brake pedal (hold) but it's doing it automatically.

 

Former Volvo XC40 owner, now have a 2024 PS2. Since the XC40 was my first EV, I spent a lot of time on the VX40 forums. There were several threads about unintended acceleration for the XC40, some of them were written off to user error, but in several cases the owners found a way to duplicate the unintended acceleration. Some of the legitmate cases included one that was a sequence of stopping the car, getting back in without closing the door and the car would "lurch" forward, other owners were able to duplicate this; another case was of coming to a stop on uneven ground on a hill, and with the foot off of the brake and accelerator, the car would lurch forward; and at least two other owners were able to lemon law the car because Volvo acknowleged an intended acceleration issue and was unable to repair.

It seems to me that the XC40/C40 are so similar, that if Volvo is having issues, then Polestar would also have issues. They don't happen frequently, but they do happen, and in some cases are repeatable.

 

Former Volvo XC40 owner, now have a 2024 PS2. Since the XC40 was my first EV, I spent a lot of time on the VX40 forums. There were several threads about unintended acceleration for the XC40, some of them were written off to user error, but in several cases the owners found a way to duplicate the unintended acceleration. Some of the legitmate cases included one that was a sequence of stopping the car, getting back in without closing the door and the car would "lurch" forward, other owners were able to duplicate this; another case was of coming to a stop on uneven ground on a hill, and with the foot off of the brake and accelerator, the car would lurch forward; and at least two other owners were able to lemon law the car because Volvo acknowleged an intended acceleration issue and was unable to repair.

Are you able to find or share the links to these? I am especailly interested in cases that have been reproducible. I am not saying what you are saying isn't true, but if this really is a defect that can be duplicated as you are saying, there is no way these cars are still on the road and not immediately all recalled.

The last part around people being able to lemon law the car because Volvo acknoweledge the issue but not able to fix it should be front page headline.

 

You are reading it that it doesn't use the motors below 5 km/h, but I don't think that is what it means - I think that means that if the braking operation starts at a speed outside that range it uses the hydraulic brakes (or doesn't use regen), whereas if the operation starts within the stated range it will use regen and only engage the brakes if heavy application is used.

 

At very low speeds, the motors cannot operate as a generator, friction must be used.

 

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but the feel I get from my car is that when I'm gently slowly down to a stop it's being done by the motors and the brakes don't engage until a few seconds after I become stationary.

Anyway, we digress: the main point I was driving at is that the application of motor and brakes in our cars is all computer controlled and therefore I don't see the OP's post being a slam dunk human error, especially when we take into account the issues that have been documented about its siblings at Volvo (and from other, experienced P*2 drivers on this forum).

I wonder how this conversation would have developed if the OP was a regular, long term contributor who reported exactly the same scenario?

 

I wonder how this conversation would have developed if the OP was a regular, long term contributor who reported exactly the same scenario?

you're right.
on the topic, and given the info we have, i remain of the opinion i've expressed in page 1 (https://www.polestar-forum.com/thre...udden-automatic-acceleration-lead-to-accident.16306/?post_id=284533#post-284533)
it IS totally a possibility that something strange happened within the car system, but I THINK more likely that an inexperienced electric driver on an unfamiliar car may have been caught off guard by some functioning logic and made a mistake in the reaction.